Episode 88

Bruja Magic with Lorraine Monteagut

Published on: 26th March, 2024

Lorraine Monteagut PhD, is a queer Latine astrologer and tarot reader and author of Brujas: The Magic and Power of Witches of Color, featured in Axios, NPR, Telemundo, Cosmopolitan, People en Espanol, Bustle, Book Riot, the Witch Wave, and elsewhere. She is the creator of Witchy Heights, a community space for practical magic based in St. Petersburg, Florida, through which she offers one-on-one readings, private parties, classes and a coven membership.

On this episode, we discuss:

  • Lorraine's spiritual background and experiences growing up as a child of Cuban and Columbian immigrants
  • That sticky place where scientific answers bump up against spiritual and mystical experiences, and how we might hold both as valid ways of seeing and experiencing the world
  • Her grandmother's background in Espiritismo, and how this sparked the seeking and research that eventually became the subject matter for Lorraine's book, Brujas.
  • Lorraine's understanding of the Sacred Feminine, and why it's important that we experiment with and embrace imperfect language and definitions for our spiritual seeking within a patriarchal context
  • The importance of spiritual activism, and why our spiritual enhancement should help us reach out and create deeper connections with others

Here are a few notes related to this episode:

  • Lorraine's book is Brujas: The Magic and Power of Witches of Color
  • You can learn more about her at her website, https://www.witchyheights.com/, and you can follow her on Instragram @witchyheights.
  • Lorraine mentioned the work of the late Gloria Anzaldua, a celebrated American scholar.

And here are a few more details about this show and my work:

  • If you’d like to know whose ancestral tribal lands you currently reside on, you can look up your address here: https://native-land.ca/
  • You can also visit the Coalition of Natives and Allies for more helpful educational resources about Indigenous rights and history.
  • Please – if you love this podcast and/or have read my book, please consider leaving me a review, and thank you for supporting my work!
  • You can watch this and other podcast episodes at the Home to Her YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@hometoher
  • For more Sacred Feminine goodness and to stay up to date on all episodes, please follow me on Instagram: @hometoher.
  • To dive into conversation about the Sacred Feminine, join the Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hometoher 
  • To go deeper in your Sacred Feminine explorations, check out the course offerings via Home to Her Academy: www.hometoheracademy.com 
  • And to read about the Sacred Feminine, check out my award-winning book Home to Her: Walking the Transformative Path of the Sacred Feminine (Womancraft Publishing), available wherever you buy your books!. If you've read it, your reviews on Goodreads and Amazon are greatly appreciated! 

Mentioned in this episode:

We Are Sovereign: A 9-Month Transformational Leadership Program for Women

We Are Sovereign is a 9 month transformational leadership program designed specifically for women who are ready to claim full authority and power over their own lives. The program includes a deep dive with: • Powerful Sacred Feminine figures, drawn from history and mythology, who will serve as our sovereignty guides along the way • Transformational practices rooted in creativity, play, energy work, ritual, ceremony and even magic • Embodiment practices, including dance, yoga, and other intuitive movement exercises to tap into the wisdom of the body • The Enneagram as a tool for understanding the human psyche and our individual personality types • Yogic philosophy, creative writing and journaling exercises, and much more • The power of the group field that we cultivate to dive deep and be witnessed fully for who we are, allowing the property of emergence to support our becoming The journey kicks off with an opening retreat on the beautiful Big Island of Hawaii, September 12-15, 2024. From there, we’ll gather twice a month over the next 9 months via Zoom, and we’ll wrap up in June 2025 with a closing retreat at Hestia Magic Retreat Center, located in the shadow of majestic Mount Shasta, California. To learn more, apply, and/or book a discovery call, visit: https://www.hometoheracademy.com/course/we-are-sovereign

Transcript
Speaker:

Hello, and welcome to Home to Her,

the podcast that's dedicated to

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reclaiming the lost and stolen

wisdom of the sacred feminine.

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I'm your host, Liz Kelly, and on

each episode, we explore her stories

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and myths, her spiritual principles,

and most importantly, what this

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wisdom has to offer us right now.

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Thanks for being here.

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Let's get started.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Liz Childs Kelly: Hey everybody, this

is Liz, joining you as usual from

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central Virginia and the unceded lands

of the Monacan Nation, and I am so

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glad that you are here with me today.

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And as always, if you would like to know

whose lands you might be residing on,

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please be sure to check out native-land.

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ca.

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There's a fantastic interactive map there.

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I always put that in the show notes, so

if you don't remember that, no worries

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you can go check it out after this.

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And yeah, I'm so glad

you're tuning in today.

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And if you are interested in learning

more about the Sacred Feminine, there

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are a lot of ways that you can do that.

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So first, of course, there's a lot of

ways you can do that without my help,

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but I'm just going to tell you the

ways that you can do that with my help.

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You can check out my book, Home

to Her, Walking the Transformative

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Path of the Sacred Feminine.

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It's available wherever

you buy your books.

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You can check out the classes that are

available via the home to her Academy.

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I am rolling out new courses

in collaboration with some

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amazing teachers all year long.

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You can follow me on social at home

to her on Facebook and Instagram.

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And I'm, I'm even trying to get

my act together on tick tock.

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So if you're on there, go, go check

it out and give me a little love.

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Cause I'm kind of a slow adopter

to new technology and I can't

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even call that new at this point.

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It's been around for a while.

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And you can check out articles and all

the past podcast episodes at home to her.

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com.

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I will put all of this in the show notes.

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And if you're a regular listener, I

would love for you to leave a review

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of the show wherever you access it.

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It's super helpful.

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It helps other people find this.

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And so that would be great.

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Same thing with the book.

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If you read the book, you liked it.

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I would love it if you'd leave it

a review on Amazon or Goodreads in

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particular, those are really helpful.

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And as always, feel free to reach

out to me with your thoughts and your

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comments, your feedback, your suggestions.

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I love hearing from you.

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Social is a really good way to do that.

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I think that's all I got

for you on that front.

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So let's get on with the show.

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This is another good one.

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Okay.

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So I've got another

author on the show today.

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I get to talk to the most amazing people.

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This is so great.

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And I just totally devoured her

book and she writes with such

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heart and bravery and integrity.

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And also from a deeply intersectional

place is really inspiring to me.

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And so I'm just really honored

that she's with me today.

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Dr.

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Lorraine Monteagut is a queer, Latine

astrologer and tarot reader, and author

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of Brujas, the magic and power of witches

of color, which has been featured in

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Axios, NPR, Telemundo, Cosmopolitan,

People en Español, bustle, a book

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riot, the witch wave, and elsewhere.

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She is the creator of Witchy

Heights, a community space for

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practical magic based in St.

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Petersburg, Florida, through which she

offers one on one readings, private

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parties, classes, and a coven membership.

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And she is joining us

today from her home in St.

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Petersburg, Florida.

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Lorraine, thank you so

much for being here.

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It's an honor to have you.

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Thank

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Lorraine Monteagut: you so much.

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I am ecstatic to be here.

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Thank you.

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Liz Childs Kelly: Yay.

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All right.

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Well listeners to the show know

I always start in the same place.

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I hope y'all aren't

getting bored with this.

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Hopefully you're not.

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You're still listening.

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So that's good.

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But I love to hear from guests

about your spiritual background.

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And I like to hear that

because I'm curious.

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I just like to hear people talk about it.

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But I also am curious about,

you know, what that is.

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If there were things that you had to let

go of that were not serving you, if there

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were things that kind of informed you

and, and got you to where you are now.

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So I would love to start

there if that's okay with you.

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Lorraine Monteagut:

Yeah, that's wonderful.

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That's, that's where I

always start as well.

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That's what the impetus for all

of the work has been actually.

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So that's, that's a great first question.

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So my spiritual background is, you

know, originally from my my parents

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immigrated from Cuba and Columbia.

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So that's.

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That's where I eventually returned,

quote unquote, reclaimed, returned to,

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but really it started very very kind

of, you know milquetoast, you know,

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it's just the way most people grow up

with spirituality in this country is

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it wasn't really the primary focus of

my family's life in my early childhood.

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We were really Encouraged to go

towards education and personal

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development and, you know, what

we wanted to be when we grew up.

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So, that was just something

in the background.

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We did have, there were little reminders

of things that came before we assimilated

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and moved to the United States.

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There were altars in the corners

of my You know, grandmother's room.

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They're, you know, my aunts and uncles,

they did some stuff that I kind of

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was aware of about, you know, the

things that they would do in their

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prayers that were a little different

than what I saw at church when we

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occasionally went very occasionally.

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So yeah, it was, we were all kind of,

you know, just Plugging along our lives.

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It wasn't really a big question besides

the, you know, really common markers

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of Catholicism, the, we, so we were,

you know, technically Catholics.

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So I did the first communion

and the confirmation.

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And it was all just like these things

you take off your list, just like school.

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It wasn't any different.

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Though I did have a huge curiosity for it.

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So as I was in these schools CCD,

we called them, they were like

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the afterschool Catholic programs.

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On Wednesdays hump day, it was, it was

just like such a slog after school to

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go to these things, because I was truly

interested in always have been a student

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of religion and wanted to know more and

asked so many questions during these.

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Teachings, but the teachers just shut

down anything that was like curious in the

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direction of like outside of their dogma.

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So, you know, anything that challenge

challenged, you know, the, the

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typical tenets of who Jesus was and

what, how we worship and all that

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stuff was kind of brushed aside and I

quickly lost interest for that reason.

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I might have been the most astute,

like, dedicated student, if it weren't

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for the fact that they just obviously

were, you know, indoctrinating us.

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And I was kind of aware of that from

the moment I started on that path.

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So I just did it kind of grudgingly just

like school, the, the parts, the subjects

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you don't like, you know and just like

the subjects I didn't like in school,

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it wasn't that there was no curiosity.

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It was that, that that

curiosity wasn't nurtured.

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By those teachers.

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So I think, you know, as a suburban

kid in Miami, my upbringing was pretty

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average when it comes to spirituality.

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So the moment that changed it

all for me was when I started in

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adolescence, seeing strange things

in my room and that's dun dun dun.

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Liz Childs Kelly: I know.

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And now you, and now you just gotta

keep going because we can't just like,

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Breeze past that and, and, Mm-Hmm.

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I mean, you, you, you write about

that a a lot in your book, but Yeah.

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, so talk to us about talk to us about that.

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Yeah.

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Lorraine Monteagut: Yeah.

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And you know, now it's, you know,

commonly known as sleep paralysis.

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I would say that that's like the

general category that this falls under.

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It's that sensation of being paralyzed

in bed, but you're fully awake.

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Your mind is actually fully awake,

but your body hasn't yet been

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released from the REM cycle paralysis.

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And so in those moments I would

see these visitors in my room and

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some of them were very menacing in

the corners, these dark shadows.

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I was, you know, filled with so much fear

in those moments when this would happen.

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And I had no idea it was a common

experience until later in life.

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Actually, every time it would happen,

I would kind of forget right away.

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Cause you know, I'm a kid and I got

other things to think about, you know,

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just my friends and the books I'm

reading and whatever being outside.

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So as soon as I would wake up, like,

as far as I can tell, like looking

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back on this, I don't think I dwelled

on any of it, but it was occurring

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fairly frequently in adolescence and

it continued into my early twenties.

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So, and mid twenties

and then late twenties.

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And it just it would come back.

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With full force at certain

periods of my life.

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I think it was the periods where I was

most stressed out or least centered.

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But it definitely started in adolescence,

which is the first time that you feel, I

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think, completely out of whack with your

body, things are just shifting and you

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have so many questions and no answers.

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And yeah, I was just

experiencing this stuff.

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And the only time I ever Asked

anybody about it was my grandmother.

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When I was maybe 15 or something.

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I asked her because she was a spirit

medium in Cuba and she had let go of

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her practice when we moved to this

country and never talked about it,

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just kept it under lock and key.

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And just like many Cubans of her

generation, the first generation

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to immigrate to this country, a

lot of them don't speak of the

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before times they didn't speak about

the times before the revolution.

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They're just all about making a new

life here and also pushing education

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and career and all that kind of stuff.

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Capitalism.

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So, you know, in line with that, when I

came to her and said, you know, Abuelita.

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I'm seeing these things in my room.

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I know that you've spoken to

ghosts, you know, are they

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ghosts who want to speak with me?

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Is there anything I can do?

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Like they are scaring me.

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And she just said, close

your eyes and pray on the way.

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Pray to Jesus.

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Right.

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So it was, it was kind of like that

dismissive quality that I found in

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the teachers and I was so disappointed

because I thought, you know, like a lot

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of kids do, like I was on the brink of

some magical door that would open for me.

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And then I would get all these

answers and I would understand where

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I was in the place of all of this.

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And if I had any powers, you know,

you, you just want to have powers

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when you're a teenager, right?

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So, cause you're, you feel so

powerless and in so many other ways.

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And so it was really disappointing.

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But I did actually take

her advice and do that.

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And pushed it away and pushed away and

filtered it out as much as I could.

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It wasn't until many years later when they

would return with full force in my late

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20s that I started to really ask myself

what this was and investigate it in within

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my larger work as an academic which was

like the little seed that led me here.

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Okay.

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So what, what did my grandmother

practice before she came to this country?

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What, what was that?

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And, and I learned about Espiritismo,

which is a brand of spiritism that

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was very parallel to the kind of

spiritism that was happening here

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in the turn of the 20, 20th century.

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And you know, the parlor seances, that

kind of thing, which has just, you

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know, influenced me my whole life.

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I'm sitting in parlor, kind of, that I

would imagine was like, kind of looks like

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that Victorian spiritualist parlor thing.

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You know, I've always wanted to

honor my grandmother in that way,

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even though she gave it up herself.

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Liz Childs Kelly: Well, yes.

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And I was going to say, it sounds

like you and I feel like this is sort

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of a theme that I want to touch on.

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So maybe we'll go there or not

right now, but it sounds like you.

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So you called it sleep paralysis in the

beginning, but now you're also tying

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it back to this, you know, this thing

that's part of your lineage, right?

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And so I mean, how do you think

about those encounters now?

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How do you understand them in this moment?

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Lorraine Monteagut: It's so interesting.

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I'm of a divided mind about it, you

know to this day, I don't quite know.

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But I, my, you know, scientific and

academic mind says, okay, this is

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a thing that you have found since

then happens to a lot of people.

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Actually, it's super common.

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You know my mom has an undiagnosed

narcolepsy that she has suffered her

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whole life and she would like fall asleep

at the wheel and like she would wake up

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with night terrors and screaming and I

am biologically very similar to her so

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and I find that I am like a very sleepy

person and kind of fall into like these

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little trance states very easily fall

asleep very easily and hallucinate and

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see visions, you know, very very easily.

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And that's all part of

the, you know, diagnostic.

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If you were to look up like narcolepsy

and sleep paralysis related to that,

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that's all part of that language.

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And we tend to see very similar things

across cultures, which is interesting.

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So that's the part that's like,

there's got to be something for me

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that is mystical about all this.

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You know, knowing that it's an observable

phenomenon or not, not observable,

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but it's a cataloged phenomenon that

happens to a lot of people doesn't

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take away from the mystery of it.

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For me, you know, it just means that

it's even more mysterious because

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so many people are experiencing it.

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So what is that?

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And so you know, so the spiritual

part of me is, you know, just

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attracted to this idea that it is some

sort of thread to the past in some

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way that I don't quite understand.

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And that my grandmother figured out a

way to harness it and communicate and

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be a bridge between what she was seeing

and experiencing and and the people

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who came to her and I never took the

route of training that, you know, I

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there's all sorts of mediumship training

that you go through, but that's just

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never been accessible to me again.

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She closed that door for me and then

didn't quite know how to get there.

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So I found that I do that

work in my creative work.

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I do it with the sessions that I

do for people in intuitive ways

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through astrology and tarot.

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And I do that for myself with writing.

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So there is this sense that like something

unlocks and kind of goes through me

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while I can't explain what it is,

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it is there.

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Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah.

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I love that.

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And I was also thinking, as you were

talking about you know, just your role as

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an academic and yet I wouldn't describe

the book that you wrote as very academic.

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It doesn't feel academic to me.

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It feels really accessible,

which I, I love.

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I'll also sit down and

read all the academic books

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because I'm a geek like that.

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Yeah.

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But I guess I was thinking about how Even

the assumption that like just wanting to

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challenge the assumption that like science

and academia have to sit over here, and

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mysticism and spirituality need to sit

over here, and that these two things

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can't actually interweave, or shouldn't,

or even that, like let's say there's

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a scientific reason, like the sleep

paralysis thing that you're talking about,

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which I've experienced as well, And, and

also it's like, what is going on here?

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And then we do my Googling and

then there's like sort of this

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deflated feeling of like Yeah.

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It's just a thing.

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It's just a biological function.

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You mean I'm not special?

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I'm not special.

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Wow.

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But there's the question.

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It's like, what if it's both?

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Like it's to your point, it's an

observable phenomenon and in a

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different culture, in a different

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lens, it might be understood

completely differently.

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So it's almost like the conclusion

of this happens to everybody.

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So it's not that big a deal is it

feels, it feels problematic to me,

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or just like an, an overreach of

what the data actually says, which

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is this happens to a lot of people.

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Lorraine Monteagut: Yeah, I never

understood that idea that because it's

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common, it's not important, you know and

I think that's just the way, especially

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in America that we're culturally

oriented is that what's important is

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the, the thing that is rare, or the

person that is, you know, so out of

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this world special unique abilities.

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But really, we all retain or you

know, we all express unique abilities

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in just mundane ways, I think.

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And we're all super

creative people, I believe.

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And these things we have in common

are super powerful and the way that

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we can organize with each other and,

connect and that's extremely powerful.

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So I don't want to sound

like a conspiracy theorist.

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I'm not, I'm not like there's the system

that like has a consciousness that

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wants to keep you down, but structurally

speaking, institutionally speaking, yeah,

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it's not to the benefit of a few who.

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Who, you know, get rich off of us that we

all, you, we realize our collective power.

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And I do think that there is something

about this phenomenon since it is so

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common that is like linked to like

under the surface, subconscious, you

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know, collective power that we share.

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And if we could just connect over

it, I think it would be something.

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You know, the work I've done so far

is my small kind of gesture, my small

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movement toward connecting us somehow.

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And yeah, I totally agree with you

that there isn't, shouldn't be a

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separation between what is considered

science and what is considered magic.

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And I think that if you look at

the history of science, we've often

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called things magic before we had,

you know, laws to ascribe to them.

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We often reach to magic to understand

possibility and like quantum physics is

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like all magic right now, you know So,

I think that they're inextricably linked

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and I've gotten into super intense fights

about this with atheist men usually so

328

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah, well and I'm

I want to I want to go back to this

329

:

because I want to talk about, I'm always

really curious on what it's like to be an

330

:

academic exploring topics of spirituality

in a way that I don't think you do this

331

:

in a way that feels putting it under the

microscope or analyzing it to the point

332

:

of like, there's almost a way where I feel

like Okay, you, you call me out on this

333

:

since you're the PhD and not me, but I

feel like there's a way in which we can

334

:

pick something apart to understand it and

in the process, like, kill it or just take

335

:

the life force that's there out of it.

336

:

And so I am really curious about

like, what's that experience

337

:

been like for you as an academic?

338

:

And I don't actually know what your PhD

is in, but you know, I'm going to assume

339

:

it's in the route of what you wrote about.

340

:

Like what that's been like to kind of

explore that area of spirituality and then

341

:

also hold the lens of, of an academic and

to do that within an academic setting.

342

:

Lorraine Monteagut: Yeah, my PhD is

in communication and I am a super

343

:

weirdo that came out of left field and

transferred from a different department

344

:

that was actually, it was geography

actually, which made a little more sense.

345

:

The geography I was approaching, you

know it from a spiritual lens, like

346

:

the, the geography of spiritualities and

especially the Afro Caribbean diaspora.

347

:

And I never let that thread go.

348

:

But the department I was in tanked and was

gobbled up by the environmental sciences

349

:

and then a hard line was drawn between

what's science and what isn't and I had to

350

:

really like change everything I was doing

to be able to fit into this new schema.

351

:

And so I defected.

352

:

I was like, I can't stay here.

353

:

I'm not like a, you know,

quantitative person.

354

:

Again, I don't want to analyze

things to death, like you said,

355

:

and I think that's what I had

would have had to do if I'd stayed.

356

:

I found a professor who was

teaching a class about love.

357

:

And I was just super attracted

to that class and his style.

358

:

And so I I went over there and was

like, can I make what I'm doing fit?

359

:

And he's like, yeah, we'll figure it out.

360

:

It's communication.

361

:

So, and my background

is in communications.

362

:

So, you know, there was a little

bit of a connection, but honestly,

363

:

I was just going to write about

what I was going to write about.

364

:

And I was, I'm just kind of

that hardheaded kind of person.

365

:

And so I don't ultimately didn't

fit into academia in a way that

366

:

allowed me to stay long term.

367

:

So I for, you know, I forwent

the whole process of the tenure

368

:

track search and all that stuff.

369

:

Well, I say that, but I did try a

little bit and was rejected a lot.

370

:

So I, I just found that that wasn't

really for me because it is so

371

:

narrow because you do have to devote

yourself to a paradigm that has been

372

:

assigned to you as a discipline.

373

:

And I just never saw the point of

that, you know, what I was working

374

:

on cross so many disciplines.

375

:

And there are cross disciplinary

programs out there that I

376

:

would have probably fit better.

377

:

That's neither here nor there.

378

:

That's a topic for another day.

379

:

But you know, I, basically, just like

made my own way through this PhD self

380

:

funded myself through it so that I could

do the work I actually wanted to do.

381

:

And now I can make now with like the clear

head of not being under that pressure.

382

:

I can see that what I do is definitely

like in the communication paradigm.

383

:

I use these tools to help

people communicate with

384

:

themselves and each other.

385

:

Astrology and tarot as a

language for reflection.

386

:

You know, it's it's funny how you circle

background and say, yeah, yeah, I, I did.

387

:

I did learn, even though I didn't fit,

you know, I did use what I had, and I am

388

:

the kind of person to never let anything

go to waste, so I have repurposed, you

389

:

know, things for my own, for my own work.

390

:

So anyway, that's all to say that I,

I decided that what was more important

391

:

than fitting into the paradigm and

writing in journals that only academics

392

:

read and analyzing everything to death

and making sure it ties back to the

393

:

old philosophies of yore, you know,

written by old white men in the sixties.

394

:

I don't know.

395

:

I just didn't want to do that.

396

:

And so after I finished, I thought,

okay, there's a seed of something here.

397

:

I didn't quite get there with the PhD.

398

:

I didn't quite get there all the way.

399

:

So I took some time to reframe my work.

400

:

into a nonfiction book

proposal for the mass market.

401

:

And I took the best of the

writing and I kept working on it.

402

:

And the best of it was

really that personal lens.

403

:

I think that's what like people

connect to is the memoir aspect of it.

404

:

And then from there I

connected it to other stories.

405

:

Because at that hinge point

between the PhD and my book work,

406

:

I realized that I was part of

something larger that was happening.

407

:

And that there were a lot of people who

had gone through this experience of trying

408

:

to return to their past and past ancestry.

409

:

And we were all, there's a thread that

connected to us, but we were all coming

410

:

out of it in from a different tradition.

411

:

And different histories and there

was there was something universal

412

:

and yet so specific about each of

our experiences and I wanted to

413

:

include as many of those voices as

possible in my next work in my book.

414

:

So that's what I set out to do

for years after post PhD I was

415

:

interviewing people around the country.

416

:

The pandemic happened and.

417

:

That put a wrench in things, but in some

ways it, it was wonderful because people

418

:

were connecting online like never before.

419

:

And so it was actually quite easy, more

accessible for all of us to like meet

420

:

via zoom and have these conversations.

421

:

And so each chapter of the

book is one of their stories.

422

:

And I really kept to the story

format, the first person or like

423

:

just their story in their own words.

424

:

I didn't want to analyze

anything to death.

425

:

I just wanted to present their stories

in their own words as much as I

426

:

possibly could and connect it to these

larger traditions and themes that I

427

:

was exploring through my research.

428

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Yes.

429

:

And I want to I want to talk more

about, you know, what you, what you

430

:

covered, like some of those themes.

431

:

But I think before we go there,

cause I want to make sure I keep

432

:

the thread of the sacred feminine.

433

:

I'm like, Oh wait, this

is what my show is.

434

:

Yeah.

435

:

I want to know if, okay.

436

:

So first of all, if that language

means anything to you and if it

437

:

doesn't, you know, feel free to

use your other, your own language.

438

:

But I always like to weave that in.

439

:

Like, what does that mean for you to know

This aspect of spirituality or spiritual

440

:

seeking or divinity through that lens

of what I call the sacred feminine,

441

:

but you might call something else.

442

:

Lorraine Monteagut: Yeah, so,

you know, my inspiration was.

443

:

My, my grandmother.

444

:

And so there is this idea of a maternal

line that I see in my own story and

445

:

in a lot of the practitioners that I

interview and follow of, of all genders.

446

:

There's this idea of I guess it's

because it's like in stark contrast to

447

:

the patriarchy and the male centered

institutions of our world that there is

448

:

this , balancing maternal ancestral thing

that we're all trying to connect with.

449

:

Now I did have a lot of difficulties over

the last 10 years as I was doing my work

450

:

in community with gender essentialism

and especially in circles, I would

451

:

lead, you know, of people expecting

all women to have the same experience,

452

:

you know, all of us to have wombs, all

of us to nurture children go through

453

:

the experience of birth, have periods

that line up with the moon cycles,

454

:

you know, that kind of thing that was

really, really popular for a while

455

:

and still is really in moon circles.

456

:

And you know, I guess I didn't

investigate it very critically at

457

:

first because I'm operating within it.

458

:

Right.

459

:

So I, I do identify as a

woman, you know, I do kind of.

460

:

Follow my own cycles and the cycles

of the moon and all that stuff.

461

:

But as I was working , the circles

got bigger and bigger, I realized

462

:

like, oh, wait, you know, there are

people who, who to them femininity

463

:

means something completely different.

464

:

And it's not, it's not exactly

the same for all of us.

465

:

And also I started to become more aware

of non binary and trans And I wanted to

466

:

make my circles inclusive to them as well.

467

:

So I started to change the language

and because of the way other people

468

:

were using sacred femininity, I started

to like shy away from it because I

469

:

didn't want to be , seen as someone

who is perpetuating stereotypes

470

:

about what it is to be feminine.

471

:

And so, so it was, it was tricky

for me, but I've since come back

472

:

around now that I'm more confident

in what I do and my beliefs.

473

:

I have come back around to

my own spiritual practice.

474

:

of femininity.

475

:

And I, I do really connect to

some divine beings in mythology

476

:

that are feminine beings.

477

:

And so I think that I'm re entering it

through personal practice again, and I'm

478

:

still a bit hesitant about the way that

I teach it, if that makes any sense.

479

:

Liz Childs Kelly: For sure.

480

:

Yeah.

481

:

It's funny.

482

:

I get so stubborn.

483

:

I'm like, I'm just

noticing this in myself.

484

:

It's stubborn around the language

of the sacred feminine, because,

485

:

almost because of what you're saying,

because I don't want it to be co opted

486

:

by This gender essentialist view.

487

:

I'm like, no, damn it.

488

:

You don't get to take this from me

And I will tell you what I mean by

489

:

using this language and you don't

need to use it Yeah, you say it.

490

:

However you want but you don't get to

take this like it's not okay To turn

491

:

it into something that I feel like

and from my perspective Historically

492

:

is even it's just not even accurate.

493

:

It's not right.

494

:

It doesn't even align with

what what's out there oh I can

495

:

feel myself getting all feisty.

496

:

Yeah, I like it I like

that The fiery, yeah.

497

:

Yeah, so anyways, I mean what you're

saying resonates and I too have this

498

:

hesitation around the language or

something that's like, I want you to

499

:

know that that's not what I mean and I

want you to know it right from the get go

500

:

and I want the words and the language so

that you know that right from the get go.

501

:

Like if you see what I'm doing,

like you know immediately it's not

502

:

this exclusionary thing and This is

actually bringing up a conversation

503

:

that I had with the two hosts

of the Missing Witches podcast.

504

:

You know, they, they've been on the show

twice and and we had this conversation

505

:

around the language, the sacred feminine.

506

:

And I was like, I don't know, it

was a tricky, you know, thing.

507

:

And Amy Torok was like, well, why

don't you come up with something else?

508

:

Like people are making

up words all the time.

509

:

And I was like, you're right.

510

:

Maybe I could.

511

:

I have yet to do that.

512

:

You know what I mean?

513

:

And, and then the stubborn part of me

is like, well, I don't want to have to.

514

:

I want to use this language because

patriarchy has given us shit options

515

:

in terms of language, you know?

516

:

And so I, I kind of want to reclaim it

and, and use it the way I feel is right.

517

:

But anyway.

518

:

Lorraine Monteagut: Yeah, I think, I

think that there's something to that

519

:

because if we water everything down

because we're scared of being canceled

520

:

for lack of a better, I feel like that's

what we're really scared of, right?

521

:

It's like, you know, not just being

canceled, but just not connecting to

522

:

people that we would otherwise connect

with because we we're using certain

523

:

language that might exclude them.

524

:

I, I think that patriarchy wins, you know,

because ultimately then everything that

525

:

we were trying to do just gets, you know,

swept aside because it's not perfect.

526

:

And the thing that the fact is that

nothing we're doing is perfect and it

527

:

never can be, but we can continue to

kind of, and this is something that

528

:

I also talked with Amy, the Missing

Witches podcast with You know, we bumble

529

:

through things, you know, we, we we're

figuring out as we go along and it's okay.

530

:

And so I obviously am operating

as a, well, not obviously I do

531

:

identify as a woman and my client

base is largely women, you know?

532

:

And so, yeah, we're doing something here.

533

:

With the feminine.

534

:

But I would like to, you know, maybe as

I move forward and talk to people, you

535

:

know, I've started a coven here and that's

historically, you know, very female.

536

:

I would like to invite the idea that this

is larger than our, our bodies and how we

537

:

were and what we were born with , and that

whether you identify as a male or female

538

:

and whether you, were assigned female

at birth, or, have come to identify as

539

:

female later in life or whether you're

non binary or, cisgender, there is

540

:

this, this pull towards what flows.

541

:

There's a pull, we're all coming together

because we're attracted to some force that

542

:

flows among us that's in response to

or outside of the rigid institutions that

543

:

we come from and like the restrictive

forces and I think astrology helps me the

544

:

most with this language because I think of

the patriarchy and the structures and the

545

:

restrictive nature of things as Saturn.

546

:

So that's how I talk about it to people

is Saturn's the daddy of the Zodiac.

547

:

And there's, you know, Saturn ruled women

out there and there's Saturn ruled men.

548

:

And then there are other forces

in astrology that connect more

549

:

to the nurturing flow of things.

550

:

And we need both , this is,

our world is, is both things.

551

:

It's manifest reality, it's structures,

but it's also the, those are the

552

:

containers that hold our spirits.

553

:

And so I think What brings

us together is that spirit.

554

:

However, we each experience it.

555

:

That's all ever flowing.

556

:

That's the mystery of things.

557

:

And the Saturn is kind of like what

we were talking of before is like

558

:

the science and the explanations.

559

:

And we do this dialectic all

the time between these things.

560

:

And I think that we need both of them.

561

:

So I think I, I do like, in

equal measure focus on both.

562

:

And because maybe cause I'm a Gemini and

I'm, you know, mercury person and that's

563

:

the mercury is the, the go between.

564

:

So like retrieves lessons

from each way of being.

565

:

But ultimately, yeah,

why do people come to me?

566

:

Why do people come to this work, the

work that you do, the work that I do,

567

:

these books out there, witchcraft,

you know, why do people come to it?

568

:

And I really do think it's like an

attraction to a force that we can't

569

:

catalog, we can't observe fully with

our five senses, there's something else.

570

:

And I guess if I were to call anything

sacred feminine, it would be that.

571

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah.

572

:

Oh, I love that.

573

:

I really do.

574

:

I, I was thinking that as you were

saying that I did a talk at my former

575

:

alma mater a few weeks ago and was, you

know, like you have to, I'm sure you've

576

:

found this you revisit your own material

enough that it starts to make sense to

577

:

you in a different way, or you're able to

communicate it in a different way, right?

578

:

I don't know if you feel that

way, but that's how I felt.

579

:

Oh, totally.

580

:

Yeah.

581

:

Yeah.

582

:

And one of the things that I've found

myself wanting to say that I don't

583

:

say in the book is that any picture

that we have of spirit or God that

584

:

is just one expression is incomplete.

585

:

Like it's just incomplete.

586

:

And so for me, the reclamation

Has been the feminine, right?

587

:

Because I grew up in a

Southern Baptist household.

588

:

So God, God was a man.

589

:

I mean, there was definitely

no questions about that.

590

:

So that piece was like the first one

that has shown up really, really loud.

591

:

And it's almost like she's just

kicked the door open and it's been

592

:

like, yeah, but it's everything.

593

:

It's trees outside.

594

:

It is the bird.

595

:

It's the, it's the wind.

596

:

It is like the blood rushing

in your body, like that.

597

:

Is spirit, you know, so any, any

vision that we have of divinity

598

:

that doesn't include all of that

is just not complete, I think.

599

:

And so what I wonder about is,

600

:

Is the flowing piece for me, or like

the God in all things, the feminine,

601

:

or is she just the door kicker?

602

:

Like, she's just the one who's

like, let me open the door

603

:

so that you can see all this.

604

:

I don't know.

605

:

I don't think I have to know, you know?

606

:

I mean, whatever.

607

:

She's got a great role

no matter what, but.

608

:

Lorraine Monteagut: Yeah,

it's a, it's a mystery.

609

:

Liz Childs Kelly: It's a fricking mystery.

610

:

Lorraine Monteagut: Yeah.

611

:

I, I think that, you know, from my

experience using astrology primarily

612

:

as my mode with clients, there

are so many archetypes out there.

613

:

And we connect with certain ones at

certain parts of our lives, you know, and

614

:

because we are born into these bodies that

have these dongles and bubbles and just

615

:

to be silly about it, you know, like we

throughout history, throughout cultures

616

:

have Projected our form onto things.

617

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Yes.

618

:

Lorraine Monteagut: So, I

do think Which is all we

619

:

Liz Childs Kelly: can really do.

620

:

Right?

621

:

Like, I mean, right.

622

:

do.

623

:

Lorraine Monteagut: Yeah.

624

:

And so, I think if we're projecting,

like the masculine parts of us, as the

625

:

ones that connect to like these rigid

institutions that like not to say that

626

:

there's like, there's no value judge

moral judgment here like what we call

627

:

the quote unquote masculine is very

important too, it's the things that

628

:

hold us together, the containers and

the, the restrictions are sometimes

629

:

these useful, sometimes oppressive.

630

:

It just depends on the context, right?

631

:

And so if we're, you know, I feel like

maybe we project part of ourselves

632

:

that are like bound to this manifest

reality as masculine and maybe the

633

:

parts of ourselves that are mysterious

and flowing inside our emotions and our

634

:

creativity and our urges and everything

that hasn't yet been like written in

635

:

stone is I think what we usually refer

to as the feminine, but again, it's

636

:

like, it's imperfect because we're

just, we're just projecting what we are.

637

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Into

638

:

Lorraine Monteagut: out there.

639

:

Yeah.

640

:

And if we maybe were different beings,

like if we were like blobs with both

641

:

sexes and like eight tentacles and,

you know, if we just look different,

642

:

then we might not even call it that

we might call it like, I don't know.

643

:

Yeah.

644

:

The tentacle divine.

645

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Which, maybe

that's where we're headed, who knows?

646

:

Like evolutionarily speaking,

I guess we could become that.

647

:

Lorraine Monteagut: Yeah.

648

:

Like amoeba, if we were amoebas, then

our divine beings would look very

649

:

different and maybe not have the same

kind of genders is all I'm saying.

650

:

So, but the reality is we do have

this reality and you know, most of us

651

:

have been raised with this dichotomy,

you know, between male and female,

652

:

you know, these gender differences.

653

:

And I think it's a, it's a discussion

worth having because it is like

654

:

part of our realities and it, it

really like affects us all the

655

:

time, you know, and especially women

and those that identify as women

656

:

Liz Childs Kelly: in the most

657

:

Lorraine Monteagut:

inclusive way possible.

658

:

Like we all, we're coming up

against this conundrum all the time.

659

:

What does it mean to be

a woman in this world?

660

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah.

661

:

And I, I think I just, one other

thing about that, that I wanted

662

:

to name based on my own experience

in a priestess initiation

663

:

circle that I was in for a year.

664

:

It was very intense and very powerful.

665

:

And there was a man that was in

that group and I was initially

666

:

very resistant because I just, you

know, I'm carrying my own trauma.

667

:

I'm like here to learn about the

feminine, like who the hell is this guy?

668

:

Why is he here?

669

:

His presence in that circle

was transformational.

670

:

And I, what I learned from that

is that so much is possible

671

:

with a clear agreement field.

672

:

Here's the container that

we agree to hold together.

673

:

Here's what we are okay with

and what we're not okay with.

674

:

And and also when you are

committed to, Oh, okay.

675

:

All right.

676

:

Let me see if I'm going

to tread into this one.

677

:

We, we'll see how this comes out.

678

:

Yeah.

679

:

And people can always call

me out if I mess this up.

680

:

I'm okay with it.

681

:

Lorraine Monteagut: This is

all an experiment right now.

682

:

Right?

683

:

We're just trying to,

684

:

Liz Childs Kelly: we're

685

:

Lorraine Monteagut: trying to figure

it out here in real time, everyone.

686

:

Yeah,

687

:

Liz Childs Kelly: but there is something

about fully stepping into your power.

688

:

And there are some ways in which women

absolutely have not been able to do that.

689

:

And institutions and systems and

family structures and All kinds of

690

:

things, especially for non white women

that have made it hard to do that.

691

:

So I, I am not saying

that that doesn't exist.

692

:

However, I also think that there, there's

a way that I'll just speak for me.

693

:

That'll make it safer.

694

:

I'll speak for me, where I'm carrying

perhaps the trauma of my own ancestors.

695

:

I'm looking around at the world and I'm

thinking that I actually don't have as

696

:

much power as I do, or that there are

systems that are in place that are holding

697

:

me back that I haven't pushed at hard

enough to be like, is this really true?

698

:

Do I have more agency right in this moment

than what I've told myself that I have?

699

:

And I think it's a white woman

with well educated and money.

700

:

That's absolutely true.

701

:

And and so to be in a container like

this priestess circle, which is all

702

:

about stepping into your full power.

703

:

And to be like, no, there's

a clear agreement field.

704

:

So we all know why we're here

and I'm going to hold it just

705

:

as much as everybody else.

706

:

Then suddenly there's safety and there's

just possibilities kind of exploding

707

:

everywhere that I never imagined.

708

:

And it was beautiful and

so incredibly empowering.

709

:

And now you can tell me

if I stepped in it or not.

710

:

Lorraine Monteagut: No,

I don't think you did.

711

:

So I like, I think the important

thing there, like the, the word

712

:

agreement is what stood out

is, are we all okay with this?

713

:

I do really believe in the power of

exclusive spaces that are agreed upon

714

:

for just, you know, one group of people.

715

:

So like a woman only space.

716

:

that is held sacred, gay

only spaces, people of color,

717

:

you know, black only spaces.

718

:

I believe in the power of those spaces

and I respect the exclusivity and like

719

:

that, that I don't belong in some of them.

720

:

And so I would have questions for the

man that was in your circle for sure.

721

:

Cause you know but if it was, you know,

if it was agreed upon by every member

722

:

there that it was okay, then it's okay.

723

:

Right.

724

:

But but there are places, you

know, circles and, and, and places

725

:

where there, it is more exclusive.

726

:

And in the spiritual world, there

are like traditions that are

727

:

closed and I write about those.

728

:

And you know, I think

it's important to respect.

729

:

People's boundaries around there because

a lot of power does happen within those

730

:

groups when they don't have the outside

eye, you know, and like when everybody

731

:

identifies as the same community.

732

:

And of course we all come from

many different communities I'm

733

:

not just a woman I'm a Latina

woman, no, I identify as a witch.

734

:

I'm a certain age group so

there's just so many different.

735

:

Floating identities.

736

:

And so it's, it's never going to

be perfect just because you're in a

737

:

room with only, people who identify

as women doesn't mean that it's

738

:

a homogenous group by any means.

739

:

I guess it's, it's complicated, but

I think consent and agreement is

740

:

important as everything, you know,

what are we doing here together?

741

:

And are we all like committed?

742

:

To this I think is the

most important thing.

743

:

And as I go forward, though, I used

to do women only circles and, you

744

:

know, women only circles that included

anybody who identified as a woman.

745

:

I have since opened it to anyone because

I think that whoever is being called

746

:

to come to my groups, should be there.

747

:

And what connects us and our commitment

and our agreement is to what we're

748

:

doing there and accepting each other.

749

:

You know, in all of our differences.

750

:

And can we call that kind

of mode sacred feminine?

751

:

I don't know.

752

:

Can we?

753

:

Maybe.

754

:

The witch.

755

:

The witch.

756

:

The witch.

757

:

The witch is like, you know

archetype, archetypally feminine.

758

:

And it doesn't mean you

can't be a male witch.

759

:

There's lots of male witches.

760

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Yes.

761

:

And this is the big lesson for me that

I have attributed to the sacred feminine

762

:

is the idea of yes and like just stop

with the binary either or like it's yes,

763

:

there's some truth there and there's some

truth here and like let's just let them

764

:

multiply instead of trying to put it under

the microscope and just pull it down to

765

:

its smallest parts, like just keep like

letting it get bigger, you know, and

766

:

like, let us stretch like our containers

just keep going bigger, bigger, bigger.

767

:

So we could hold all of

it too, rather than like.

768

:

Lorraine Monteagut: Yeah,

that's the opposite of

769

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Saturn to me.

770

:

Yeah.

771

:

Lorraine Monteagut: Yeah.

772

:

Yeah.

773

:

It's, it's a, it's a

malleable growing network.

774

:

I think of mushrooms, you know, in the

mycelium and the organic connections.

775

:

And I feel like that you know, if

maybe, maybe Divine Feminine and

776

:

Divine Masculine are just scaffolding

for us and until we understand

777

:

what we're really talking about.

778

:

And I think what it is, is the

difference between an organic

779

:

network of nurturing and more like

authoritarian vision of the world.

780

:

Is we're fighting against and because at

this moment in time, the authoritarian

781

:

vision has corrupted and it's causing

a lot of harm out there in the world.

782

:

And, has historically been

held by, and has historically

783

:

been held by men in power.

784

:

And that's just the facts.

785

:

And so is there anything like

truly Like masculine about that?

786

:

Maybe not.

787

:

Is there anything truly

feminine about what we're doing?

788

:

Maybe not.

789

:

But like, that's just,

that's just our perception.

790

:

Our, like, that's, that's

where we're coming from.

791

:

That's how we're viewing it.

792

:

And that's important.

793

:

And so we can't throw it away.

794

:

Just 'cause not perfect.

795

:

Yes.

796

:

'cause it's doing, 'cause it's

doing good work and there are

797

:

always going to be missteps.

798

:

Like, we're gonna step in

it, we're gonna do it wrong.

799

:

You know, like, we're gonna exclude

people and like harm people sometimes.

800

:

Accidentally hopefully accidentally,

you know, and hopefully we can reflect

801

:

and like, make amends and carry on.

802

:

Instead of throwing the baby out

with the bathwater and saying

803

:

this whole experiment is wrong.

804

:

And let's just shut it all down, like,

there's still something that we that pulls

805

:

us together in this kind of way that keeps

attracting us to each other in this kind

806

:

of way circles instead of hierarchies.

807

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah.

808

:

I was just thinking of like

muddling through and I don't

809

:

know the etymology of that word.

810

:

I'm going to have to look it up

now, but I was thinking of mud

811

:

and like how mud to me is right.

812

:

Like it's thick and sticky and like,

we just, but it's also like, that's the

813

:

feminine to me, you know, or like, like,

we're just like, we're in the right place.

814

:

Like if we're like at mud squishing

between our toes and stuff, as we

815

:

muddle through this, it's a good thing.

816

:

It's all a good thing.

817

:

Lorraine Monteagut: Yeah.

818

:

And I think of organic and what's

happening under the surface.

819

:

And I think of Our muddling through is,

you know, disturbing the ground and then

820

:

maybe something else might come out of it.

821

:

Because we're stimulating

something together.

822

:

Yes.

823

:

Yeah, I was just part of a

protest this last weekend.

824

:

You know, the international

protest for Gaza.

825

:

Same.

826

:

And just saw, you know, like

how we are all doing that.

827

:

We're feet on the ground

muddling things up.

828

:

Not really understanding everything,

but maybe we're not even all on

829

:

the same page, but we're together.

830

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Well, and this is.

831

:

I just, I love how these conversations

flow because sometimes it just requires, I

832

:

feel like it requires nothing of me except

just to show up, you know, like engage.

833

:

And so this, this just happens.

834

:

Tease up.

835

:

I think this is perfect with the

last question I want to ask you,

836

:

which is about like, you really talk

about sacred activism in your book.

837

:

And that deeply resonates with me.

838

:

Like that for me is part of the

work of the sacred feminine.

839

:

It is not just let me buy a bunch

of crystals and no offense to

840

:

people who love your crystals.

841

:

I'm not dissing you, but you know,

it is not about, um, Just personal

842

:

development like let's make me feel

good about me, and I'm gonna stop

843

:

there Like I really think it's about

how does it ripple out into the world?

844

:

And so I know that's something that

you write about too, but I wonder

845

:

if you could reflect a little bit On

that you know and on your thoughts on

846

:

that and how that kind of came through

how it comes through in your life

847

:

And how it came through in your book

848

:

Lorraine Monteagut: Yeah, I

call it spiritual activism.

849

:

And I think, yeah, same

thing, sacred activism.

850

:

Well, it's not my term.

851

:

I learned it from Gloria Anzaldúa.

852

:

And she writes about it as, you know, the,

the force within us that extends outward.

853

:

and connects to others.

854

:

And our spiritual enhancement and growth

is incomplete without that connection.

855

:

And that's why I think of networks all

the time is that's what really matters is

856

:

where we are working on ourselves for the

purpose of collective growth and healing.

857

:

That is what it's all about.

858

:

And so if we're, if we're doing it at the

expense of others, but even not that far,

859

:

maybe it's not even at the expenses or

just at the ignorance or apathy of others

860

:

about others it's just incomplete work.

861

:

And it's just like any drug that

makes you feel good, like spirituality

862

:

can feel really good if it's like,

you know, you're reading things that

863

:

really resonate with you and you're

going to yoga and you're breathing

864

:

deeply and your body feels great.

865

:

But it's also hard work because

you're like illuminating your

866

:

baddies and the patterns of the past

that might be detrimental to you.

867

:

And, you know, we talk about this as

shadow work that we've, you know, we've

868

:

kind of taken that from psychology.

869

:

And when we do this, we connect to

others who are doing the same work

870

:

and we bumble through it together

and we like, figure it out and like,

871

:

probably make a mess of things.

872

:

And like people listening to me trying

to explain the sacred feminine before

873

:

probably like what the hell, you know,

it just doesn't make sense all the time.

874

:

And it's just It's important to do that

without the expectation of a particular

875

:

outcome for yourself, it's more about

connecting to others and lending a

876

:

hand and like helping others figure

it out and, helping others in need.

877

:

And that's, that's what

my whole life is about.

878

:

And I have foregone some good pay and some

security and stability because I really

879

:

do believe in that work of making myself

available to others and helping them

880

:

with the hard things in their lives and

connecting and community and mutual aid.

881

:

Networks that might grow to, you know,

anytime we've got a mushroom pop out,

882

:

like, you know, a success, it's because

of that mycelial network that we did for

883

:

years and under the mud and the dirt that

didn't seem like it was for anything.

884

:

And it turns out to change things.

885

:

Liz Childs Kelly: I love that.

886

:

Yeah.

887

:

And that we can't always see

it when we're, we're in it.

888

:

Yeah, absolutely.

889

:

Absolutely.

890

:

Lorraine, this has been so fun.

891

:

Thank you so much.

892

:

I just feel like time's like whoosh.

893

:

Oh yeah.

894

:

So fast.

895

:

It's already been an hour.

896

:

I know.

897

:

I know.

898

:

So Lorraine's book is Brujas, the

magic and power of witches of color.

899

:

I will make sure to put a link in To

it in the show notes and then tell

900

:

us how people can find you if they

want to learn more about you and all

901

:

the cool things that you're doing.

902

:

Lorraine Monteagut: Best way

to find me is on Instagram at

903

:

the moment at witchy heights.

904

:

I too am a slow adopter

of the ticky talkies, so

905

:

Liz Childs Kelly: thank you

for making me feel better.

906

:

Okay.

907

:

Lorraine Monteagut: Yeah, I am trying

to get on there this, this year, I will.

908

:

Witch Tok is a huge thing so maybe with

some help I can, I can get going on there.

909

:

But for now, Instagram at Witchy

Heights is the best way to do it.

910

:

To connect with me on social.

911

:

And I do have a website, witchy heights.

912

:

com where you can check out my offerings.

913

:

I'm going to start a year long

class series on ritual astrology

914

:

and the way you can learn your

birth chart and also connected to

915

:

some rituals you can do at home.

916

:

And that will be available online

as well as in person in St.

917

:

Pete or the Tampa Bay area.

918

:

If you happen to be here, or if you

happen to be in Florida, I want to take a

919

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Super cool.

920

:

Thank you so much.

921

:

This has really, really, really been fun.

922

:

Thank you so much.

923

:

Yeah.

924

:

Yeah.

925

:

And thanks to all of you

as always for listening.

926

:

I'm so glad you show up So you get bored

of me saying the same thing over and over

927

:

you probably do if you listen to this a

lot but I do always like want to close

928

:

these with just saying like I I would have

these conversations even if you weren't

929

:

there because they make me really happy

but The fact that you are tuning in makes

930

:

it more likely that cool people like

Lorraine will show up and talk to me.

931

:

And I like sharing it with you.

932

:

So I'm super grateful that

you're along for the ride.

933

:

And if you like this show,

you can do a few things.

934

:

You can leave it a favorable review.

935

:

You can tell all your friends about it.

936

:

You can subscribe to it.

937

:

You can do all those things.

938

:

And until next time, take really good

care of yourself, keep muddling through,

939

:

and I'll talk to you again soon.

940

:

Home to Her is hosted by me, Liz Kelly.

941

:

You can visit me online at hometoher.

942

:

com, where you can find show

notes and other episodes.

943

:

You can read articles about the

Sacred Feminine, and you'll also

944

:

find a link to join the Home to

Her Facebook group for lots more

945

:

discussion and exploration of Her.

946

:

You can also follow me on Instagram,

at home to her, to keep up to

947

:

date with the latest episodes.

948

:

Thanks so much for joining us

and we'll see you back here soon.

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About the Podcast

Home to Her
The Home to Her podcast is dedicated to elevating the wisdom of the Sacred Feminine. Join host Liz Kelly for intimate conversations with acclaimed authors, artists, teachers, poets and mystics, each of whom will help us learn more about Sacred Feminine history, Her spiritual ideas and how to connect with this wisdom right now.

About your host

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Liz Kelly