Episode 92

Journey to the Goddess with Annalisa Derr

Published on: 21st June, 2024

On the latest episode I'm joined by Dr. Annalisa Derr, a goddess educator, Sacred Feminine embodiment teacher, and ritual theatre creatrix. Annalisa completed her doctorate in Mythological Studies with Emphasis in Depth Psychology from Pacifica Graduate Institute. She also holds a BA in Theater with specialized training in masked and physical theater from international master teachers in Italy, India, and NYC. Annalisa's work explores the impact that negative cultural menstrual “myths” have on women, which her forthcoming book will explore in more detail. Annalisa offers an affirming alternative in the form of an ancient myth, “The Descent of Inanna,” which she re-visions as a sacred menstrual narrative and ritual rite-of-passage.

During this episode we discuss:

  • Annalisa's experience growing up in a Lutheran church, including the connection she made later between devotional Christian hymns and the Bhakti yoga tradition
  • The near total erasure of the Sacred Feminine in Protestantism, and why discovering Her can feel like such a revelation for many of us
  • How discovering Mary Magdalene sparked Annalisa's ongoing journey to the Goddess and led her to her current research
  • What Annalisa refers to as the menstrual mysteries, and how the Inanna myth teaches us about them and the nature of the Goddess Herself - as a gateway through the lessons of birth, death, and rebirth
  • Annalisa's pending move to Greece and her vision for supporting the reemergence of the Sacred Feminine in patriarchal strongholds
  • And a bonus - Annalisa becomes the third guest in the history of the show to bring me to tears (in a really good way)! Tune in to find out why.

Notes related to this episode:

And here are a few more details about this show and my work:

  • If you’d like to know whose ancestral tribal lands you currently reside on, you can look up your address here: https://native-land.ca/
  • You can also visit the Coalition of Natives and Allies for more helpful educational resources about Indigenous rights and history.
  • Please – if you love this podcast and/or have read my book, please consider leaving me a review, and thank you for supporting my work!
  • You can also watch episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@hometoher
  • For more Sacred Feminine goodness and to stay up to date on all episodes, please follow me on Instagram: @hometoher.
  • To dive into conversation about the Sacred Feminine, join the Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/hometoher
  • To go deeper in your Sacred Feminine explorations, check out the course offerings via Home to Her Academy: www.hometoheracademy.com
  • And to read about the Sacred Feminine, check out my award-winning book Home to Her: Walking the Transformative Path of the Sacred Feminine (Womancraft Publishing), available on Audible and wherever you buy your books!. If you've read it, your reviews on Goodreads and Amazon are greatly appreciated!

Finally, here a few related episodes:

Mentioned in this episode:

From the Goddess Docuseries now available!

From the Goddess is a wonderful docu-series that is a must watch for all of my fellow Goddess lovers. It’s a six-part series called From the Goddess, and it’s produced by Laura Hirch, who is the fabulous founder and filmmaker behind Womenbodiment Films. Laura has done an incredible job compiling interviews with 38 Sacred Feminine experts and wisdom keepers from around the world, including some amazing women you may have heard right here, like Max Dashu, Giovanni Washington, Vicki Noble, and Joan Marler. Each of the six episodes delves deeply into the Goddess, whether that’s exploring the ancient origins of the Great Mother, the pioneering research of some of the foremothers of this work, the Goddess’s appearance in art, and so much more. I have learned a ton from this series, and I know you will too. You can purchase and stream episodes individually for $12, or you can purchase and stream all six for $50. It’s definitely worth the investment to add to your Sacred Feminine knowledge! You can watch the trailer here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heTo15Fw9fU&t=10s, and access all six episodes here: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/fromthegoddessdocuseries/

Transcript
Speaker:

Hello, and welcome to Home to Her,

the podcast that's dedicated to

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reclaiming the lost and stolen

wisdom of the sacred feminine.

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I'm your host, Liz Kelly, and on

each episode, we explore her stories

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and myths, her spiritual principles,

and most importantly, what this

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wisdom has to offer us right now.

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Thanks for being here.

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Let's get started.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Liz Childs Kelly: Hey everybody,

this is Liz joining you as usual

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from central Virginia and the unceded

lands of the Monacan Nation, and I

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am so glad that you are here today.

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And as always, if you want to know whose

lands you might be residing on, be sure

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to check out the map at native land.

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ca.

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I will put that in the show notes.

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And if you are interested in learning

more about the sacred feminine, of course,

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there's all kinds of ways you can do that.

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I've got Four and a half years worth

of episodes of really cool people

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that you can refer to, but if you

want to learn from me, you can check

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out my award winning book, Home

to Her, Walking the Transformative

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Path of the Sacred Feminine.

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It's available wherever you buy

your books, and very exciting

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news, it is now out on Audible!

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I recorded it earlier this year, and it

just came out recently, so if you prefer

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to listen to your books, you can do that.

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I think it'll be on Spotify soon

too, like wherever you can listen

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to your audiobooks, so yeah.

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Check that out if you're interested

in that and you can check out classes

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available via the home to her Academy, I

have a class coming up this fall sacred

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conversations with land It's a three day

retreat At hastia magic retreat center

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near mount shasta in california with three

weeks of integration afterwards online Did

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this in april and it was Just phenomenal.

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It was so great.

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So we're doing it again in September.

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So you can check that

out at hometoherecademy.

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com.

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You can follow me on social at Home

to Her on Facebook and Instagram.

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And you can check out articles and all

the past podcast episodes at hometoher.

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com.

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If you can't remember

all that, not to worry.

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I will put it in the show notes.

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And if you're a regular listener,

I would really appreciate it if you

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would consider leaving a review of

this show wherever you access it.

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It's super helpful, helps

other people find it.

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And then lastly, if you have

thoughts and comments, suggestions,

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feedback, whatever reach out to me.

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I love hearing from you, and social

is always a really good way to do

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that, but you can do email as well.

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Okay, that's it.

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That's my spiel.

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So, I've been patiently waiting for

the right timing to have my most

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recent guest on the show with me.

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I don't know if I guess it's patiently.

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I've been persistent, as

she pointed out to me.

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And I'm so excited that we're

actually doing this today.

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I joined her on her Journey to the

Goddess TV show a while back, and it was

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really fun to share my story with her

and her viewers, but also just became

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immediately clear that we have a lot of

overlap in our sacred feminine journeys.

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So I'm just really looking forward to

turning the tables and having her tell

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us all about her journey and me too.

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Cause there's some I know, and

there's a lot that I don't.

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So let me go ahead and

introduce you to her.

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Dr.

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Annalisa Derr is a goddess educator,

sacred feminine embodiment teacher,

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and ritual theater creatrix.

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She completed her doctorate in

mythological studies with emphasis

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in depth psychology from Pacifica

Graduate Institute, and she holds a BA

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in theater with specialized training

in masked and physical theater from

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international master teachers in

Italy and India and New York City.

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Annalisa currently has a book under

contract with Inner Traditions, Bear

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and Company, and her work explores

the impact that negative cultural

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menstrual myths have on women.

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Annalisa offers an affirming alternative

in the form of an ancient myth, the

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Descent of Inanna, which has been

really present for me lately, which

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she revisions as a sacred menstrual

narrative and a ritual rite of passage.

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I can't wait to talk about this.

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Seeking embodied approaches to her

research, Annalisa developed an ongoing

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site specific, goddess centered,

menstrual art performance series called

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She Bleeds the World Into Existence.

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And she has performed these original

and one time only performances

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in Italy, Greece, and California.

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Annalisa also hosts the Journey to

the Goddess TV, a platform designed

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to enrich the lives of everyday

women with interviews and keynote

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presentations by experts in goddess

scholarship and spirituality.

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And she also offers sacred

feminine pilgrimage tours,

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embodiment workshops, and retreats.

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And last but not least, this is

a lot, she is also an aspiring

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flamenco dancer and italophile.

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I hope I said that right, OK.

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That means she's into

Italian culture, I think.

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And a pilgrimess.

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And she is joining us today from

the Seattle, Washington area.

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Annalisa, yay!

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We're finally doing it.

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This is so great.

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Annalisa Derr: Oh my goodness.

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Thank you for having me.

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Sorry to make you read all of that.

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That was a mouthful.

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Liz Childs Kelly: It's so impressive.

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Like, oh my God, we could just

unpack your bio for the whole

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episode and we'd be good to go.

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But yeah, it's amazing.

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Annalisa Derr: So happy to be

here and that we finally set a

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date and are making it happen.

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Liz Childs Kelly: Yes, me too.

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Me too.

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Well listeners know if they

listen regularly, I always like to

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start with hearing about people's

spiritual backgrounds and you

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know, what that was like for you

growing up and what was useful, if

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anything what you had to let go of.

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So I'd love to start there

if that's okay with you.

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Annalisa Derr: Yeah, absolutely.

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So I was baptized Lutheran, but

my mom, for whatever reason, that

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wasn't kind of satisfying for her.

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So we always shopped

churches and she's a singer.

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And so I think the kind of devotional

singing aspect of the Christian

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religion is what really kind of hooked

her all to say that that's kind of my

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most Maybe potent and happy memories

from kind of this non denominational

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Christian faith that I then grew up in.

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And I guess, you know, I asked

her why I never went to Sunday

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school, like the other kids.

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And she said that you know, I'd

gone a few times, but I complained

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that they would always talk

about the devil and it scared me.

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So I asked if I could like be in

the regular service with her, which

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was great because there was just a

lot of singing to Jesus, you know,

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just like love for the divine.

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So I think that's what I carry with

me from my youth, even though at some

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point I started to question like,

I don't know about, you know, some

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of the tenets of Christianity, or

I don't know about the way that it

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gets politicized in today's world.

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Like, that didn't resonate with me.

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So I eventually moved away.

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But the, the kind of Bakhti

singing devotional aspect is

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what is still with me today.

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Liz Childs Kelly: I love that

you referenced bhakti, devotional

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singing, and the reference

to, yeah, I totally feel that.

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I grew up Baptist.

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And yeah, I think the songs were,

you know, the, one of the only

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things that I would, I still

have nostalgia about sometimes.

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That's, that's a cool connection

that you just made for me.

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Yeah.

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Annalisa Derr: Right.

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So it's like when, then when I saw

It was introduced to Hinduism and you

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know, like Krishna Das and that kind of

devotional bhakti style music of, you

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know, worshiping the divine through song.

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There was just this transfer of feeling

like I was like, Oh, it's the same

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thing, just a different name of the deity

that you're singing to and loving on.

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And so.

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I don't know.

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I really love that that's kind of

like a non denominational thing.

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That's a cross cultural thing that you

can find in so many different traditions

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to help us maybe, I don't know,

connect with one another or empathize

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with one another's spiritual beliefs.

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Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah.

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Yeah, for sure.

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Well, the other question that I usually

ask guests in the beginning too, is I

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love to hear how the Sacred Feminine

came into your world, like how did

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you, was there a particular moment

when you became aware of her and what

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was that, what was that like for you?

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Annalisa Derr: Yeah, for

me it, it's the journey.

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So yes, there was a moment and it also

kind of was like an extended moment,

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so I I'd like to say that my journey

to the goddess really began when I

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went with a theater group, a New York

City based theater group to India.

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And we were training in

classical Indian dance theater.

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So like Kathakali, which is a South

Indian male dance form is like

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reported to go back to Like 2000

years, maybe it's old, like some

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of this dance theater may have been

contemporary with ancient Greek theater.

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I get really excited when I think

about the possibility that they were

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performing at the same time, because

it's like living history in that way.

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It's traveled down to us.

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So anyway, so when I was there you know,

training in these different art forms.

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And I was confronted with Hindu

goddesses, well, their whole

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pantheon, their whole belief system.

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But that was the first time that I

encountered the divine and feminine form.

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And we were dancing, you

know, the feminine as well.

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I mean, everything.

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So I, there was a part of experiencing

it in the body too, and then learning

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about the cultural belief system.

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And then when you're there immersed

in it, like my experience was,

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the very way of life is divine

feminine in the Hindu culture.

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And so I had this moment where I was

just kind of experiencing this, you

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know, and just, it was so different and

so beautiful and potent and powerful.

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And I was on a beach reading this

book, so I had kind of, like, already

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started to think about, other iterations

of the Divine Feminine outside.

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I was already kind of curious, but I

just remember sitting on this beach

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after this intensive, and I was reading

this book by Rudolf Steiner, and it

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was about Isis, Mary, and Sophia.

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And I was just really struck with

like, you know, where, where is the

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missing Divine Feminine in our culture?

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Like in the culture that I was raised in.

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Like it's, she's clearly here

and she's so potent and she's so

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powerful in the Hindu tradition.

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But, and I feel like she must have been

somewhere in the Christian tradition,

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but she's gone or she's missing.

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And I need to find her.

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It was just like, boom,

like that was the beginning.

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That was like, I heard the call.

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If we're going to go into the hero's

journey and a template and I internalized

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it, and then that was the beginning

of the journey, the adventure.

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So that was the pivotal moment for me.

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Liz Childs Kelly: You know, as you're

articulating that, I'm wondering, because

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I, I sort of had that question too,

and I'm wondering if there's a, I'm

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thinking about it from like a Protestant

background, right, because I really feel

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like Catholicism, when I, when I've had

many people on the show who've been raised

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as Catholic, and their first experience

of the Divine Feminine is always Mary.

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Like, you know, Oh, my grandmother

prayed to Mary every day, or, you

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know, I would go to church and didn't

mean anything to me, but there was

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a statue of Mary outside the church.

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And I just felt held by her.

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And those of us who are raised as

Protestant, it's like, I don't know

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enough about the history of Protestantism

to know if that was, you know, Really

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deliberate, like, erasure of the

feminine, but boy, they did a bang up

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job of it, like, just gone, you know?

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So, I'm almost, I'm just wondering, now,

now I have, like, just a curiosity about,

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like, the electricity of finding the

divine feminine, and if that resonates,

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especially for people who are raised as

Protestants in different ways, because

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we were so starved of it, deprived of it.

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Annalisa Derr: Right.

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No, I love that you bring that up.

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And I bring that up to people too.

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Like now that I've been spending a lot of

time in Greece and in the Greek Orthodox

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religion, also Mary is very important.

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And so are there are saints, they're

male and female saints, right?

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So there is this sense that like the

divine feminine is still kind of present

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and those versions of Christianity, even

though she's been kind of demoted, right.

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Be divinized in a way.

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But yeah, I also grew up.

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In this non denominational kind of

Protestant lineage where she's nowhere.

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She's nowhere.

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I didn't know, I hardly knew who

Mary Magdalene was, you know?

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So, and she was, she's also been

very essential on the journey

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after that point in India.

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So yeah, so it's really interesting

having these conversations with people

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who grew up Catholic or Greek Orthodox,

because I'm like, you have to understand

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like for us, there is no divine feminine.

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It's just Jesus.

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Liz Childs Kelly: I've had that

conversation with Hindu folks as well.

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I'm like, you don't understand.

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Like you're so insular in

that spiritual experience.

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Like, and you think that that's

the only thing because that's

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sort of what is taught, right?

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Like it is your, that is

the only path to the divine.

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So yeah, totally.

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Annalisa Derr: Yes.

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Yes.

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Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah.

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Well, and you mentioned Mary Magdalene

too, I mean, as you said that I just

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had a flash of being in Italy when I

was 19, I did a study trip in college,

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and we were with lots of friends, but

was looking at the, there's a statue

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of Mary Magdalene in, I think it's in

Florence she looks really haggard, and if

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you named the artist, I'd probably know

who it was, you know, somebody famous.

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I'm like, I just want to throw out Italian

names, but I'm going to get it wrong.

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I remember looking at that

and I'm like, who is that?

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And my friend, whose father

was a fundamentalist pastor.

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She said, Oh, that's Mary Magdalene.

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She's a prostitute.

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Annalisa Derr: Yeah.

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Liz Childs Kelly: Right.

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Right.

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So even like if we did get

something of the feminine, it's

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like, she's, you know, she's, yeah.

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She's.

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Thanks.

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Down the ladder.

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Annalisa Derr: Exactly.

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She's just that lowly, you know, woman

there on the street selling herself.

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Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah, totally.

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Oh my God.

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Annalisa Derr: That's can I, I want

to share too, that that's kind of my

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original experience of Mary Magdalene too.

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I also did a study abroad

in Italy when I was.

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And my friend took me to some famous

church where there's a lot of, I think,

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whatever famous Italian Renaissance

paintings, and there was an image

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of Mary Magdalene up and I took that

picture, but I didn't know who it was.

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I just thought it was a cool picture.

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So then years later, like at least

10 years later, when I start my Mary

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Magdalene journey, I was like, huh.

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I need to go back and look and so and

it was her it's Mary Magdalene, but

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it was like 10 years of me not knowing

like really drawn into that photo and

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not or that image and have to take the

photo, but not know why it was so potent

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for me, you know, and then make the

connection years later that that's what

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I think is really cool about the goddess

journey is I have so many examples of

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that where I was like she was talking

to me along the way like just pressing

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me until I was ready to recognize her

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Liz Childs Kelly: Yes.

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I've had, yes, very, very

similar experience, right?

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Yeah.

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Well, and since we're talking about

Mary Magdalene, you say more about

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your relationship with her and how

that's kind of informed your, at least

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Annalisa Derr: part of your

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Liz Childs Kelly: journey?

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Yeah.

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Annalisa Derr: Absolutely.

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You know, and I recognize that so many

of us are called to Mary Magdalene.

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I think that she's really, I mean,

she's definitely part of the resurgence

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of the divine feminine for our

times, especially for women like us

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who are coming from the Christian

lineage and like searching, right?

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So what happened was, After I

returned to New York City, where I

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was living at the time, and I was

really just very sincere in my search.

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I was like, help me find

this divine feminine, help me

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figure out this lost piece.

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And so I was in meditation one day

and and I just, I had already, I

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had started reading books about her.

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So I think she was already in my field.

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And so I just, but I this

presence just kind of rise up

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and just kind of wrap around me.

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And I knew It was her and I just

had this knowing that she was going

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to be my guide on this journey to

find the missing divine feminine.

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So I became completely obsessed with her

completely like many of us are and and

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then I ended up going on a researching

the her sites are sacred sites in France.

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And I took myself on a sacred

pilgrimage to her sites.

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And, you know, And I did, I did find

what I found on that journey was I

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was, I was looking to her to model to

me what it means to be a woman through

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the eyes of this sacred feminine.

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And I found at the end of the journey.

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Potent realization that what I'm

really looking for is not her, but

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me, like, my own divinity, right?

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And my own sacred feminine divinity.

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And so that was a really important

step on the journey as well.

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And I think that she's just been

my guide and my muse on each

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step of like inner realization.

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And the fact that like we have all these

goddesses and these deities and these myth

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models, we'll call them outside of us.

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And at least for me, it's like, I

thought that I was seeking them,

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but really I was seeking me.

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They're all just tools to

help me know myself better.

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Tools is not a great word, but

you know, models, figures, images.

332

:

And then it was really,

I feel very strongly.

333

:

It was her that led me to graduate school.

334

:

I always say it was her Shakti, her

life force that took me to Pacifica.

335

:

And it was really for the sole purpose

again of learning every single thing I

336

:

could about her because there's just, we

know so little of the actual historical

337

:

evidence, it's such little information.

338

:

And so I was hoping graduate school

might, give me inroads to find, you

339

:

know, the stuff that's hard to find

for the lay person, but it actually,

340

:

it ended up opening up this whole other

world for me of the divine feminine.

341

:

So yeah, you know, and I guess this last

piece that I'll say about it is that I was

342

:

on this three year trajectory with her had

intended to write my dissertation on her.

343

:

And as I was like, but I had this thing

with the menstrual piece coming up, which

344

:

I can talk about more later, but she was

like, you asked like your whole being has

345

:

asked me, what does it mean to be a woman

outside of patriarchal enculturation?

346

:

Like that has been your journey

to discover what it is and if it's

347

:

possible to even discover what

that is and how would you do that?

348

:

I'm taking you on a journey

through the menstrual mysteries.

349

:

And you have to leave me in order to

like, this is she didn't say this per

350

:

se, but this was what I understood is she

wanted me to go deeper into the embodied

351

:

experience of being a woman and Inanna,

352

:

she kind of passed the torch and gave me

over to Inanna and she was like, she's

353

:

the one that's going to take you there.

354

:

So, on the one hand, Inanna's like my

guide and my, my muse, and she's, yeah.

355

:

She's just the one that's teaching

me how to find the inner me.

356

:

Liz Childs Kelly: I, I'm so

excited to talk about this.

357

:

I love inanna, so much.

358

:

I don't know if you can see, I

have the teeniest, tiniest 8 point

359

:

star necklace that I'm You do!

360

:

Yes, and I've, I've just, I got

it fairly recently and I've just,

361

:

really need to have it on right now.

362

:

But I am, I've been really excited

to talk to you about this because

363

:

and I think we talked about

Inanna when I was, joined you.

364

:

I feel like we did.

365

:

And just, my fascination with her and how

I feel like she's such a powerful example

366

:

of paradox and holding all of it, which

is what we need right now in the divine,

367

:

like, as opposed to this binary of like

good and evil, like, no, she is like, she

368

:

is vengeful and she's also compassionate

which I just love about her.

369

:

And it also makes her very relatable,

like, right, to as, as a human.

370

:

But what I don't know and what I'm super

interested to hear you talk about is

371

:

like how you see this coinciding with

what you're calling menstrual mysteries.

372

:

And I think for a lot of

listeners, they might even be

373

:

like, what, what do you mean?

374

:

Like, what are you, what

are you talking about?

375

:

You know, cause there's, there's

still a very medicalized idea

376

:

about menstrual mysteries.

377

:

menstruation.

378

:

I mean, we just bleed every month and

it's so we can have babies or not, right?

379

:

So I would love to just hear

you talk more about that.

380

:

Annalisa Derr: Yeah, God, there's like

so much to unpack, especially because

381

:

the journey continues to unfold for me.

382

:

Which is good.

383

:

That's how the journey should be.

384

:

I mean, it's not like it should be

like, I figured it out at the end.

385

:

So yeah, so initially what happened was,

is I had, when I read the Inanna myth in

386

:

full for the first time, I just was seeing

it as a metaphor for the psychological and

387

:

the somatic experiences of menstruation.

388

:

And so it was like every single

character in the myth was like had

389

:

its, what I want to say complimentary

in the, in the physical body and

390

:

also the psychological, there's like

the psychological piece as well.

391

:

So I just kind of like

just wrote that out.

392

:

I could just see how that was so and, and,

but there was this deeper piece that I was

393

:

trying to discover beyond just having this

vision, which was like, okay, like, why,

394

:

like, Do I feel ashamed of menstruating?

395

:

Like, what is that?

396

:

You know, why do I feel

ashamed of being a woman?

397

:

Right.

398

:

So it kind of, it, and it's,

of course it's nonlinear

399

:

because it's the goddess path.

400

:

So it's like, I try to like talk about

it and like the linear way in which

401

:

I've gone on the journey, but I'm

like, that's just not going to work.

402

:

So so I started going back in history.

403

:

I was like, there's, I was like,

there's no way that menstruation

404

:

has always been stigmatized.

405

:

It's just not possible.

406

:

So through my research, I developed this

kind of inquiry, like, okay, so there is

407

:

evidence that menstruation was seen as

a sacred power as women's sacred power

408

:

in the pre patriarchal old Europe.

409

:

So that's like pre civilization.

410

:

Okay, and then there's a point

where it becomes stigmatized.

411

:

So I tracked that and I think it was

around the time of what we call the

412

:

civilizations when patriarchy started

and the marginalization of women, and the

413

:

legal control of our reproductive rights.

414

:

Okay.

415

:

Procreative bodies and the

philosophical mythological control

416

:

of our procreative power as well.

417

:

And basically the power, the

life giving power of birth, like,

418

:

let me go back and say this.

419

:

So Maria Gimbutas was an archaeo

mythologist, and she put forth this idea,

420

:

right, that there was a great goddess

worshipping society in old Europe.

421

:

And they worshipped a great goddess

that represented the powers of creation,

422

:

preservation, dissolution, and rebirth.

423

:

Okay, and this is what she

believed that they worshiped.

424

:

And this is also common and a lot

of other mythological tradition.

425

:

So it's not, you know, just

what she thinks they believed.

426

:

And so, in my view, menstruation

represented the power of transformation

427

:

between death and rebirth.

428

:

Right.

429

:

So there's this psychological component

that's really important for us to, to,

430

:

to see that our bodies are actually.

431

:

manifestations of these sacred powers

rather than feeling like it's just

432

:

this curse or inconvenience that we

have to live with in the modern world.

433

:

So there's a lot to unpack here.

434

:

So I want to, I don't want

to get too out of bounds.

435

:

So the idea is it was, it was revered

at one point, it became stigmatized

436

:

and as like, as something that was

actually either a problem medically

437

:

or a problem philosophically, like

basically that menstruation that it

438

:

was an existential threat to life,

because in patriarchal societies, it's

439

:

like women's duties to prepare to bear

men's children and menstruation is both

440

:

important for that, but it also prevents

it also presents an obstacle because

441

:

every time it's present, that means a

woman's not pregnant with a man's baby.

442

:

So that's 1 of the reasons.

443

:

And then the other reason was

philosophically or mythologically,

444

:

philosophically, religiously at this

time, it developed to be something

445

:

that could actually like I want

to say infect the divine realm.

446

:

It could, it was, it was like a

contagion, a religious contagion

447

:

that could actually bring chaos to

the divine world, which would bring

448

:

chaos to the, to the human world.

449

:

Okay.

450

:

So what may have started as the

sacred Power in which women would

451

:

ritualize it in the red tent.

452

:

We've probably, many of us

have heard about red tents.

453

:

So it's most likely that women created

this sacred space for ourselves to

454

:

bleed together, take care of one another

be in the final stages of pregnancy

455

:

and birth and post birth together,

and really take care of one another

456

:

in this sacred space to then that

devolved into a tradition in which women

457

:

were, were secluded because they were

seen as dangerous during that time.

458

:

Okay.

459

:

So that's kind of the past.

460

:

And then when we bring it up to the

present, where we're in a situation

461

:

where we've kind of desacralized nature

altogether, including our bodies and

462

:

the menstrual cycle and the menstrual

cycle is now seen kind of through

463

:

the lens of capitalist capitalism.

464

:

Production model, like menstruation, like

you said, is, is we have very good medical

465

:

understandings of it now, but it's just,

we're even at a point where it's like the

466

:

menstrual suppression movement is being

championed as what most women should do.

467

:

And what I'm saying is that I actually

think that menstruation, not only

468

:

is it a sacred power, but that power

helps us know ourselves better.

469

:

It helps us live more

powerfully in the world.

470

:

You can, you can look at it purely through

the lens of biology, or you can look at

471

:

it more kind of figuratively, like how do

I, how do I harness the power of death,

472

:

transformation and rebirth through my

creative projects or in my relationships

473

:

with people or how I'm reinventing myself.

474

:

So there's many different levels

in which we can look at those

475

:

powers as sacred and important.

476

:

And the menstrual cycle is actually

one of those places that is actual

477

:

physical manifestation of those powers.

478

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Does that make sense?

479

:

Yes.

480

:

I mean, it makes total sense.

481

:

I was thinking about, I had Alexandra Pope

and Shawnee Hugo Wurlitzer on the show.

482

:

I think 2023, I think it was 2023.

483

:

And I was also thinking about,

like, to your point of, Like, if we

484

:

rethink it in that way, then living

cyclically is actually, there's a

485

:

tremendous amount of power in that.

486

:

If we look at it from more of like a

westernized capitalist model, you're

487

:

like, oh no, we've got to slow down

if we lived in that way, right?

488

:

Or if we honored that

death part or, right?

489

:

Because there's like a peak point in

the cycle and then you come down and

490

:

then like, there's a whole thing, right?

491

:

But if you, if you honored, the cyclicity

of it and what actually might happen.

492

:

And you know what I mean?

493

:

Like, efficiency and also

sustainability, right?

494

:

Like you aren't burning out and you

are maximizing natural cycles, which

495

:

then teaches you about the natural

cycles of the rest of the world too.

496

:

I mean, I don't know.

497

:

It makes a lot of sense to me.

498

:

Annalisa Derr: Yes, yes, there's so

many layers to it because there's the

499

:

personal, there's the collective, there's

the ecological, there's the social, so

500

:

there's so many ways that, yes, we can

relate what's happening inside of our body

501

:

to everything that's happening outside

of our body, and we start to see the

502

:

interconnectedness of all things, and,

you know, one of the things I've been

503

:

I'm thinking on recently is that, you

know, because sometimes when I talk about

504

:

this, people will be like, well, what

about postmenopausal women or, you know,

505

:

you know, men don't have, you know, this

access to this kind of cyclical wisdom.

506

:

And I'm like, listen, so.

507

:

Due to some of my most recent

profound spiritual experiences, I

508

:

won't go into where they came from,

how they, where they originated.

509

:

But it's like this idea of creation,

preservation, dissolution, rebirth, that's

510

:

like essential to Hinduism, for example.

511

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Right.

512

:

Annalisa Derr: You that

is applied everywhere.

513

:

It is so applicable in so many areas of

life as we're talking about within the

514

:

body without side of the body and our

economic systems and ecological systems.

515

:

And the thing is, sorry I lost my

train of thought, I was like I want

516

:

to talk about like three different

things and I want to tell her three

517

:

different things at the same time.

518

:

That happens to me all the time.

519

:

I know, like, ah, it's so frustrating.

520

:

So okay, so this is coming

through, so this wants to be said.

521

:

So in January, for example, I

went to Varanasi and I went to the

522

:

burning ghat and I which witnessed

the ritual burning of corpses.

523

:

Anybody can see.

524

:

Liz Childs Kelly: And this

is in India, just for the.

525

:

Guess it don't.

526

:

Actually, I didn't know that.

527

:

Okay.

528

:

All right.

529

:

So that's what happens there.

530

:

Okay.

531

:

That's

532

:

Annalisa Derr: what happens there.

533

:

Yep.

534

:

And it's very auspicious.

535

:

And you know, and what I felt,

what I experienced when I

536

:

was there, it was so moving.

537

:

It like literally changed my cellular

structure inside it was like, I was

538

:

like, this is the ritualization of the

whole Hindu cosmology of, like I said,

539

:

creation preservation, dissolution,

rebirth encapsulated in this ritual.

540

:

As you see these bodies being ritually

burned and then around the, the burning

541

:

grounds, you have the cows milling

about and the dogs and the chickens,

542

:

and it's like really embodiment of

this profound truth that life and death

543

:

are co current, they rely, they're two

complementary sides like the yin and yang.

544

:

You can't have one without the other.

545

:

And that literally, like, right, like,

we are able to persevere because we're

546

:

feeding, if you will, on death, and when

we die, our bodies go into the ground,

547

:

the earthworms and stuff start to eat

us, flowers grow You know, maybe, and

548

:

then some animals come and eat that.

549

:

So it's like, that is the cycle.

550

:

And that's what the menstrual

cycle represents to me in that way.

551

:

And it doesn't, but this is why I wanted

to bring this up in the first place.

552

:

The menstrual cycle is one profound

realization of that, but you could

553

:

talk about birth in the same way,

pregnancy in the same way I think.

554

:

Like the other day I was like, oh, men

I think can experience that through

555

:

the sexual experience because when

you think about the cycle of being

556

:

in set having being in the sexual

experience, and then getting to a

557

:

climax and then you dissolution death.

558

:

It's like that is another way through

the generative organs to experience

559

:

that because I was like men have to

have some kind of like complimentary

560

:

experience through the procreative

organs of experiencing that in

561

:

a complimentary way to women.

562

:

And of course, women could

experience that sexually, too.

563

:

I just feel like through our embodied

experiences of the procreative

564

:

organs, women have more opportunities

to experience experience that.

565

:

But you know, the lungs, they

breathe in and out the, what is it?

566

:

The blood cycling around every seven

years or something, you're a new person.

567

:

So there's like infinite ways of

experiencing this, but I want to talk

568

:

about it through the menstrual cycle in a

way to help women come home to themselves.

569

:

And own that power and find find

that that sacred power is right here.

570

:

And we always have access to it.

571

:

And if I may, on my little soapbox here,

one of the other profound realizations

572

:

I had in India through an interaction

with the goddess Lalita, who is a tantric

573

:

erotic goddess, goddess of eroticism.

574

:

And not just like human sexuality,

but like eroticism is life force

575

:

energy as life force power.

576

:

So the thing that came out of that

for me is realizing that in my whole

577

:

journey to like unpack what I experienced

as menstrual shame, which was many

578

:

years of, of realizing that I, I

lived through this menstrual shame.

579

:

And what I believe so many women do.

580

:

I mean, I, I saw I think poll once

that nearly 70 percent of women

581

:

are ashamed of their periods.

582

:

And this was like, Seven years ago, so

it wasn't that long ago, you know so

583

:

my whole research inquiry was about why

do we have this shame, like, through

584

:

these belief systems, we're taught to

hate our bodies basically, or there's

585

:

something wrong with us, or their bodies

are dangerous or dirty or inconvenient

586

:

through a modern taboo system And

through a process of what I'm calling

587

:

internalized sexism or internalized

menstrual shame, where you learn to

588

:

internalize the beliefs and the behaviors

of the culture and then, you know,

589

:

enact them on yourself and other women.

590

:

And so once I realized I was doing

that, I was like, Oh my God, there

591

:

have to be other women doing this too.

592

:

And so I was so focused on the

shame part and why we feel shame.

593

:

But when I went to India two or

three months ago, I was like, No, no.

594

:

Shame is not the problem.

595

:

That's not the problem.

596

:

That is a symptom of the problem.

597

:

The problem is, and this is the

crucial point in my book, so I'm

598

:

like, even do I want to say it?

599

:

But the problem is, is that

we're not aware that that sacred

600

:

feminine power is inside of us.

601

:

And so when you don't know

that it's there, what arises?

602

:

Self hatred, fear, all of that stuff.

603

:

So that's what my book is really about.

604

:

It's about helping women discover,

uncover, claim that power and

605

:

the menstrual cycle as a profound

manifestation of that power.

606

:

And you, you know, it doesn't

mean you have to like it.

607

:

I don't always love my period.

608

:

I struggle with it too.

609

:

But yeah, I have a lot more to say

and I could talk about like, You know,

610

:

cultural menstrual rituals, but I'm going

to pause there because I like to talk.

611

:

Liz Childs Kelly: No,

I'm, I'm so here for it.

612

:

I'm just, I'm really feeling that.

613

:

And I, there's like a, like, I

get super energized by your words

614

:

and I ended at the same time.

615

:

I'm like, Oh, we have so far to come.

616

:

Like, I'm so glad you're doing this

work, you know, because that I think

617

:

we internal, like, we internalize that,

that suppression of the feminine power

618

:

in so many ways, right, like in the range

of our emotional experiences, or our

619

:

desire, you know, which is such a core

for me, I mean, I'm sure you've come

620

:

across this, right, that's such a core.

621

:

A key part of, of, of the divine

feminine is like, you don't treat

622

:

your desires as dirty or dangerous.

623

:

You're like, what are

you trying to teach me?

624

:

Like, where are you showing me

that I need to be more alive?

625

:

Annalisa Derr: And,

626

:

Liz Childs Kelly: and there's

so many ways that we are like

627

:

holding that, you know, power in.

628

:

And And so it's exciting to talk

about and it's like frustrating, like

629

:

I wish we could just all, you know,

like unzip ourselves or something

630

:

and just like whoosh, let it all

come out like that immediately.

631

:

Annalisa Derr: Yes, yes, yes.

632

:

And you know, I'm just remembering

too, you had asked me specifically

633

:

about Inanna and I went on another.

634

:

Liz Childs Kelly: You

635

:

Annalisa Derr: know, and she's, the

reason I wanted to bring up all that

636

:

about the great goddess too is because

that's how I'm revisioning her so in

637

:

my view of Inanna, there is the pre

patriarchal version of her, which

638

:

is kind of the early historic pre

prehistoric, early historic Inanna.

639

:

And then the Inanna that we know and

love mostly through myths, that's the

640

:

Inanna that's been patriarchalized.

641

:

And it's very paradoxical in and

of itself, because on the one hand,

642

:

especially for modern women, she

presents us with like sexually

643

:

liberating images and narratives

that are very powerful for us.

644

:

And in the historical context, in my

view, in, she was actually made that

645

:

way as a patriarchal propaganda to

enculturate women into their proper roles.

646

:

Yeah, as maidens mothers is the lover

to the king, all these different roles.

647

:

So that's actually the chapter that I'm

like finishing right now is that chapter.

648

:

So it's very paradoxical in and

of itself, but as a great goddess

649

:

and the way that I've revisioned

her she does represent it all.

650

:

Because when you look at Hinduism and

I compare her a lot to how, you know,

651

:

I understand Shakti and Hinduism and

the divine feminine, like, you know

652

:

Shakti is like the great goddess, the

feminine principle in her totality,

653

:

which means life force energy which

is really what Inanna embodies.

654

:

She embodies this erotic

life force energy.

655

:

And she, and, but like Shakti,

Shakti also has all of her

656

:

goddess manifestations, right?

657

:

She is like infinite and all of

her possibilities and iterations.

658

:

And so that's what makes her a paradox.

659

:

And then every single one of

those goddesses, let's take Durga,

660

:

the goddess on the battlefield

fighting the righteous fight.

661

:

Like, you know, she's described as

like, you know, luminous and beautiful

662

:

and graceful and so sensual and what

we might call like, you know I don't

663

:

want to say sexual, but feminine, like

what we might call feminine, right?

664

:

And when you see images of her,

she has all these flowers and

665

:

this beautiful sari and gold.

666

:

And then she's the only Deity, not even

like male deity, deity period that can

667

:

kill the buffalo demon and save the world.

668

:

So all of the goddesses, that's what

I see, have these paradoxical natures.

669

:

For some reason, we're really focused

in on Inanna in that way, but I'm like,

670

:

I think it helps us understand Inanna

When we compare cross culturally that

671

:

this is a phenomena of many, many

goddesses and probably gods too, but

672

:

I don't pay attention to them so much.

673

:

So and that it's like, yeah, that's

actually what it is to be a great

674

:

goddess and we're all great goddesses.

675

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Yes.

676

:

Oh, I love that.

677

:

Annalisa Derr: Yeah.

678

:

That's what, that, that was

the most profound realization

679

:

I had when I was with Lalita.

680

:

I was like, I have spent 12 years

searching for her out here, out

681

:

here, doing everything, taking

the classes, giving classes, doing

682

:

the rituals, going on pilgrimage,

going to graduate school for seven

683

:

years and writing a dissertation,

reading, I've done all the things.

684

:

And here I am, and I had this

profound meeting with the goddess

685

:

in this most unexpected way.

686

:

And all of a sudden I realized

she was inside of me all along.

687

:

And she's inside of you, and

she's inside of everybody else.

688

:

And you don't need to do anything.

689

:

It's actually, you know, to, to

borrow Monica's of, of Revelation.

690

:

What is her podcast?

691

:

Monica

692

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Rogers, the

Revelation of Rogers podcast.

693

:

Annalisa Derr: Yeah, she

talks about unbecoming.

694

:

That's it.

695

:

All you have to do is be.

696

:

You unbecome all of this doing,

and the domesticated, and all this

697

:

stuff we put on top of ourselves.

698

:

All that, none of that's it.

699

:

It's in you, so you don't have to do

anything except just allow it to arise.

700

:

And that's, again, the direction I'm

working with the menstrual cycle.

701

:

If you just allow that power, that those,

that power to be, I don't even know what

702

:

that would look like if you could just

allow it be in the being all the time.

703

:

Like that is my, hopefully I will

get there by the end of my life.

704

:

That's what I'm hoping that it's like

a thought process and I actually just

705

:

get to experience it all the time.

706

:

But for a nanosecond, I felt it.

707

:

Through the eyes of the goddess.

708

:

I was so grateful, but I also

realized that this was the

709

:

beginning of the new journey.

710

:

And that's why I went, I was very clear.

711

:

I was like, it has been 12 years since I

went to India and initiated my journey.

712

:

I need to initiate a new journey, you

know, because I've been nomadic, I've

713

:

been independent, I've been the seeker.

714

:

And now I really want to bring her

teachings out into the world, what

715

:

I've learned and teach them somehow.

716

:

I want to learn how to

be in a relationship.

717

:

I just, and that's.

718

:

What that's what she gave me.

719

:

And this is the, that, that profound

realization of her inside of me was

720

:

like, okay, it's not enlightenment,

but this is the next unfolding.

721

:

And then you're taking your

first steps on the next.

722

:

It's a 12 year journey.

723

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Wow.

724

:

Annalisa Derr: Yeah.

725

:

So

726

:

Liz Childs Kelly: I want to congratulate

you because you made me teary eyed.

727

:

I think you're the third guest

in all 90 plus episodes that I've

728

:

done that has gotten me to cry.

729

:

So nicely done.

730

:

Annalisa Derr: Well, you

hold such great space.

731

:

Thank you.

732

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Really beautiful.

733

:

Oh, I just thought I could, I had full

body chills when you were saying that.

734

:

It was so powerful.

735

:

And it really does make me

want to cry because it's so

736

:

deceptively simple, isn't it?

737

:

It's so deceptively simple,

like what you're talking

738

:

about and so fucking profound.

739

:

Annalisa Derr: Yeah, it is.

740

:

And I want to say to my friend who's

helping me edit, she keeps reminding

741

:

me that, you know, one of the things

you can convey in the book is it's

742

:

like this journey to the goddess.

743

:

You've learned you Annalisa have

learned is that it's not like,

744

:

it's not like fast fashion.

745

:

It's not like fast

spirituality, like fast.

746

:

For 99.

747

:

9 percent of us, we're not going to have

that realization in a weekend workshop,

748

:

but that's part of the journey, you

know, and to just like relax into like,

749

:

okay, this is, this is, it's a journey

and it's going to unfold how it does

750

:

for me, which will be different for you.

751

:

And just to, I don't know, maybe find joy

or peace in the unfoldment rather than

752

:

like, Oh, I have to find it right now.

753

:

It's like, Hey, you know, and I just

want to reassure people because it's.

754

:

It's going to look

different for everybody.

755

:

And it's, you know, I don't know

what it's going to look like for you,

756

:

what the realization of the Divine

Feminine will look like for anybody,

757

:

but just be gentle and spacious

with yourself and knowing that it's,

758

:

it is a journey, a life journey.

759

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah.

760

:

And it's funny, even as you're saying

that, I'm like, oh yeah, and the

761

:

title of this show is Home to Her,

which is like home to ourselves.

762

:

So I'm like.

763

:

Okay, yeah, I just remind myself of,

you know, like, yeah, and I think it

764

:

looking different for everybody is the

point, like, oh my god, it's, it's not

765

:

supposed to be the same, like, like,

that's, that's the nature of our world is

766

:

multiplicity and I, I do want to go back

and just say this really quickly, what

767

:

you were saying about, I so appreciate

the reframe on, on, Inanna as like, you

768

:

know, pre patriarchal great goddess.

769

:

I love that.

770

:

And you were reminding me, I

had another podcast guest who

771

:

was on, I think late 2023.

772

:

She's an astrologer named Damascena Tanis.

773

:

And she said something recently

that really stuck with me.

774

:

And she said you know, when you get down

to it at the heart of the goddess is

775

:

always paradox, always that is the nature

of her great mother got like, that's it.

776

:

Annalisa Derr: That's it.

777

:

I mean, because Shakti is,

Again, the Hinduism, right?

778

:

She is everything.

779

:

She is matter, antimatter,

form, formlessness, light,

780

:

dark, male, female, whatever.

781

:

She's all, she's, she's the yin

yang and and celebrate that.

782

:

And the great thing about that is like,

okay, then I'm, I can just be free

783

:

to be me because I'm the paradox too.

784

:

And I don't have to fix myself.

785

:

Yes.

786

:

Liz Childs Kelly: There's

nothing wrong with me.

787

:

Yeah, and there's just an invitation

to just accept like what we cannot

788

:

know like I was I'm remembering

that I Got this message I was at

789

:

the ocean in Northern, California.

790

:

God so long ago now like almost 10 years

ago and from her and the message was all

791

:

things are true and All things are well,

all is ebb and flow, ebb and flow, repeat.

792

:

And so like just even holding that

paradox, how can all things be true?

793

:

How can all things be well?

794

:

Like, and yet it, it is, it just is.

795

:

And there's just a surrender in that too.

796

:

Like, I don't think our brains

are meant to understand it.

797

:

Like you, you can't in this human form,

like your, your head will explode.

798

:

Right.

799

:

We can't, we don't have

the capacity for it.

800

:

Right.

801

:

Annalisa Derr: Yeah.

802

:

Yeah.

803

:

I love that word, surrendering to it too.

804

:

That is just yet just part of the

unfolding, just allow it to be.

805

:

And.

806

:

And, and this, like you said, this

simplicity, there's just, I will

807

:

actually surrender is probably one of

the hardest things we could ever do.

808

:

As I'm saying, it's simple.

809

:

I'm like, it's actually

the most difficult.

810

:

Liz Childs Kelly: So hard.

811

:

Yeah.

812

:

Yeah.

813

:

Which, you know, I mean, the menstrual

cycle can teach us about that too, right?

814

:

Like

815

:

Annalisa Derr: you get

816

:

Liz Childs Kelly: to practice

every, every moon cycle, you know,

817

:

it's like surrendering to what is.

818

:

Annalisa Derr: Yeah, I also want to just

comment on, on you and your work too,

819

:

because you're, as I expressed in my

interview with you, like I had such a

820

:

a transformational moment reading your

story of childbirth and that experience

821

:

of sacred feminine, and then you shared

that sacred feminine power, and then you

822

:

shared your story of experiencing sacred

feminine power through childbirth, or

823

:

you might have labeled it something else.

824

:

I'm calling it sacred feminine power.

825

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Oh, that works.

826

:

Yeah.

827

:

Annalisa Derr: And I actually

right now have it written

828

:

into my book as an example.

829

:

So I have your story in there.

830

:

Yes.

831

:

I love that.

832

:

Hopefully it makes the,

the cut, the edits.

833

:

So but that for me was, it was, it was

really helpful for me to also kind of

834

:

think about menstruation, you know, cause

menstruation as sacred feminine power,

835

:

like that sacred feminine power that

comes through these, like, Our bodies

836

:

like in such powerful, profound ways.

837

:

And so there was a way, there was

a way in which your story kind

838

:

of also helped me on my journey

to, to think about the menstrual

839

:

cycle and, you know, nuanced ways.

840

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Oh, I love that.

841

:

That's so cool.

842

:

That's awesome.

843

:

So much.

844

:

I could ask you, I want to hear though.

845

:

Okay.

846

:

So you've got like this unfolding.

847

:

Well, first of all, I don't

want to put you on the spot.

848

:

Do you have a publication?

849

:

Do you, you don't, you don't know yet

when your book might come out, right?

850

:

Because I'm all excited about it.

851

:

I'm already ready to get it.

852

:

Annalisa Derr: I'm thinking next year.

853

:

Okay.

854

:

Well, maybe, maybe I can send you

the, the copy and you can give

855

:

me a little blurb on the back.

856

:

Liz Childs Kelly: I would love to.

857

:

And then you have to come back

and talk to me about, you know.

858

:

That would be fun.

859

:

Yeah, for sure.

860

:

So I'm

861

:

Annalisa Derr: assuming it'll be this

time next year because of kind of

862

:

the trajectory that I'm on right now.

863

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Okay.

864

:

That's great.

865

:

And then tell me, okay, so now

you've got this, this moment

866

:

in India with Lalita, right?

867

:

And, and, and now like

there's an unfolding.

868

:

So what's, where is, where do

you see your, your journey with

869

:

the goddess taking you now?

870

:

, Annalisa Derr: before I made the journey

to start to, to write my dissertation on

871

:

the the menstrual cycle, the sacredness

of the menstrual cycle, I actually ended

872

:

up in a museum with my grad school cohort.

873

:

We were in Arizona and there were It was

a Native American focused museum, so

874

:

I was introduced to the Apache sunrise

ceremony, which is a puberty ritual

875

:

rite of passage for Apache girls.

876

:

And my understanding is that

it happens around the time of.

877

:

First bleeding menarche and in this

belief system, they go through this

878

:

really intensive four day ritual.

879

:

And they are believed to come into or

become at least symbolically they're

880

:

Changing Woman who was one of the most

important sacred beings within their.

881

:

You know, religion or belief system.

882

:

And so they go through this ritual

and they kind of embody her power and

883

:

her power has to do with, again, that

great goddess power of the cycles of

884

:

creation, preservation, dissolution.

885

:

So they, through the four day

ritual, they become Changing Woman.

886

:

In a way, and similarly in , in,

in Hinduism, they had these

887

:

same kind of belief systems.

888

:

When a woman gets married,

she becomes Lakshmi.

889

:

She's embodying the energy of Lakshmi

. And so I really got to thinking, at

890

:

first when I encountered it, I was so

like, I was like, Oh my God, why would

891

:

you want to celebrate menstruation?

892

:

Because I was like, still really

in the menstrual shame phase.

893

:

But it's stuck with me this whole time.

894

:

And I've come to realize actually

how important these meaning making

895

:

rituals are for people as they're going

from, you know, teenage years into

896

:

adulthood and that if we don't have a

ritual to celebrate what it means to

897

:

start menstruating and like the myriad

things that it could mean, like beyond

898

:

biological, even though that is important,

it is important that women will continue

899

:

to not know our bodies, to hate our

bodies, to just be really disassociated

900

:

or You know, function in ways that

are not respectful to our own natural

901

:

rhythms and the needs of our bodies.

902

:

So there's so many ways in which that,

you know, the, the Apache ceremony,

903

:

it enculturates women into their, into

what it means to be a woman and their

904

:

cultural perspective and their role

within a community in which, in which

905

:

that, in that worldview, you know, we

live in a very individualistic culture.

906

:

I believe that.

907

:

You know, in their worldview, you're

born into a community and your role

908

:

as a community member is, I think,

as important as your role as an

909

:

individual, unlike in our culture,

where that's not really the case.

910

:

So, having said that, I really see the

Descent of Inanna myth as I would like

911

:

to make it into a four day ritual for

women who grew up feeling that there

912

:

was something wrong with them because

they menstruated, which was my belief.

913

:

And fundamentally wrong.

914

:

Like that was one of my core stories that

came up during this process is there's

915

:

something fundamentally wrong with me

because I'm a woman and because I bleed.

916

:

And so that ritual is for women

who feel that way, like me,

917

:

who grew up Feeling that way.

918

:

And so to nurture the little girl

inside of them that still harbors

919

:

that self hatred, to go through that

ritual that they never got as teenage

920

:

girls and to help them step into their

symbolic power as women creatrix is

921

:

whatever word you might want to use.

922

:

So that's the seed idea that I have.

923

:

And then more recently, as I step

into my new journey, moving to

924

:

Athens, Greece here pretty soon.

925

:

I had a vision recently in which a

friend of mine, she was pulling some

926

:

cards for me and she pulled the goddess

Athena and I had been really worried

927

:

about my visa process going through.

928

:

And.

929

:

And all this technical details.

930

:

And I mean, Athena, the one

Oracle deck she had, the only

931

:

card she pulled was Athena.

932

:

And I was like, this

couldn't be more perfect.

933

:

Like I'm trying to live in

Athena city and here we go.

934

:

She's like, so I was like, I'm

going to start appeasing her.

935

:

I have her on my altar over here.

936

:

I'm like, what does she want?

937

:

I'll give you what you want.

938

:

There's this long term dream vision of

moving to Athena's city and or her country

939

:

really and building a temple in honor

of her and that is the place where I can

940

:

actually put on this ritual and and I'm

talking about building a temple in honor

941

:

of the pre patriarchal Athena because if

anybody who's you know started to dive

942

:

down the feminist goddess spirituality

research on the Greek goddesses, we know

943

:

that Athena is a, she's a daddy's girl.

944

:

Liz Childs Kelly: She's a

mouthpiece of the patriarchy.

945

:

So I'm talking,

946

:

Annalisa Derr: you know, wants me to

build the pre patriarchal temple to her.

947

:

I will do these women's rights there and,

you know, I'll invite guests, other people

948

:

to, you know put on classes and workshops

and, but I've been really In my heart,

949

:

like where is the best place to do this?

950

:

Where would it be most serving the land

and the people to do this in Greece?

951

:

And you know, more recently, I don't

know if a lot of people know this,

952

:

there's a site in Greece called

Eleusinia, which is the site of

953

:

the ancient Eleusinian mysteries.

954

:

So for people that don't know, that's

where they basically, it was an ancient

955

:

mystery cult in which people would

go through the experience of we think

956

:

a transformational experience of,

of life and, and death and rebirth

957

:

experience that was so profound.

958

:

It would like.

959

:

I don't know, changed

their perspective on life.

960

:

They weren't afraid of death anymore.

961

:

They understood their place

in the cosmos, whatever.

962

:

It was a very profound

experience for people.

963

:

And it was centered on the

myth of the mother of Demeter

964

:

and her daughter, Persephone.

965

:

And so Also

966

:

Liz Childs Kelly: descends

like Inanna, by the way.

967

:

Annalisa Derr: Yes,

968

:

Liz Childs Kelly: exactly.

969

:

Annalisa Derr: Who also, yes, thank you.

970

:

Exactly.

971

:

So it's the most sacred place to

the divine feminine, arguably in

972

:

Greece, but currently it's surrounded

by a lot of oil refineries.

973

:

So you can imagine how penetrative

and extracting and destructive that

974

:

is to the mother and the, and the,

the symbology of that being there on

975

:

the most sacred land to the mother.

976

:

And then I was looking at the

map recently, there's a massive

977

:

military base nearby too.

978

:

So it was like, They are trying to

colonize the mother with the patriarchy

979

:

as strongly and I was like, that's where

I need to put the temple to Athena to

980

:

actually, you know, heal the divine

feminine that's been colonized there to

981

:

help her regenerate herself, and to bring

as many divine feminine folk there to

982

:

help heal the land and there's a lot of.

983

:

And there's a lot of healing.

984

:

I believe that the goddess is looking to

bring people there to Greece, particularly

985

:

right now, especially because it's

like the origin of Western patriarchy.

986

:

So I think that is one of the

core places where she needs

987

:

to be regenerated and healed.

988

:

And I've met several women on the last

couple of years who are being called

989

:

to do their version of the work there.

990

:

So something's happening.

991

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Oh, well, for sure.

992

:

Yeah, I'm, I'm wanting to name Oh my God.

993

:

I keep, how can I blank on her name?

994

:

Carla?

995

:

Oh yeah.

996

:

Annalisa Derr: Iuenscu.

997

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Iuenscu.

998

:

I know she's, she's a friend.

999

:

I'm like, Oh my God, I've lost her name.

:

00:52:43,272 --> 00:52:43,462

Right.

:

00:52:43,462 --> 00:52:45,302

And her, her desire to do this on Crete.

:

00:52:45,802 --> 00:52:46,122

Right.

:

00:52:46,122 --> 00:52:47,282

I know she's talked about that.

:

00:52:47,322 --> 00:52:50,612

And in my, one of my most recent

podcast guests, Oh, I'm so

:

00:52:50,612 --> 00:52:51,442

excited to share this with you.

:

00:52:51,452 --> 00:52:55,502

Her name is Cynthia Jurs and she is,

do you know, are you familiar with her?

:

00:52:55,582 --> 00:52:55,902

She's

:

00:52:56,022 --> 00:52:56,912

Annalisa Derr: I follow her somehow.

:

00:52:56,952 --> 00:52:57,252

Yeah.

:

00:52:57,292 --> 00:53:01,572

Liz Childs Kelly: She's a Lama in the

Tibetan Buddhist tradition and also

:

00:53:01,662 --> 00:53:06,382

was ordained by Thich Nhat Hanh, like

taught with him for many, many years and

:

00:53:06,412 --> 00:53:11,552

has for the past 30 years been involved

in something called, she works with

:

00:53:11,552 --> 00:53:13,122

something called earth treasure vases.

:

00:53:13,392 --> 00:53:18,902

It was an assignment given to her by holy

man in a cave in Nepal, where these monks

:

00:53:18,902 --> 00:53:24,472

have made earth treasure vases and sent

them to her to fill with prayers and she

:

00:53:24,472 --> 00:53:26,972

buries them in the All over the world.

:

00:53:26,982 --> 00:53:29,872

And one of the last places

she went was Athens.

:

00:53:30,872 --> 00:53:34,412

And the, and the directions

to her were like the, the, the

:

00:53:34,412 --> 00:53:35,762

treasure vase will do the work.

:

00:53:35,842 --> 00:53:40,472

Like you get it there and

place it in sacred ceremony.

:

00:53:40,502 --> 00:53:40,992

And.

:

00:53:41,577 --> 00:53:42,687

That's all you have to do.

:

00:53:43,227 --> 00:53:47,417

And so, and yeah, and through

that, it became a whole connection.

:

00:53:47,727 --> 00:53:50,657

And it's, we didn't actually talk

about this on the podcast guys.

:

00:53:50,677 --> 00:53:52,987

So you have to go and read her

book because it's in the book.

:

00:53:53,427 --> 00:53:57,927

But it also became like through

her, her Tibetan Buddhist practice.

:

00:53:57,927 --> 00:54:03,287

She eventually realized that it

was Gaia who was speaking to her.

:

00:54:03,307 --> 00:54:04,277

Oh

:

00:54:04,497 --> 00:54:05,037

Annalisa Derr: wow.

:

00:54:05,197 --> 00:54:05,577

Right?

:

00:54:05,897 --> 00:54:08,187

Liz Childs Kelly: And she even has a

line in the book that's so great, which

:

00:54:08,187 --> 00:54:10,727

it says, Guru Yoga became Gaia Yoga.

:

00:54:10,987 --> 00:54:11,717

Oh my god.

:

00:54:12,347 --> 00:54:12,377

I know.

:

00:54:13,377 --> 00:54:13,957

So good.

:

00:54:13,967 --> 00:54:17,607

So yeah, I think you're onto something,

like that feeling of like Greece is a

:

00:54:17,617 --> 00:54:19,687

place of where this energy is coalescing.

:

00:54:19,697 --> 00:54:21,937

And yeah, I'm so, I'm excited for you.

:

00:54:21,947 --> 00:54:22,267

Wow.

:

00:54:22,497 --> 00:54:22,807

Annalisa Derr: Yeah.

:

00:54:22,817 --> 00:54:23,217

Thank you.

:

00:54:23,217 --> 00:54:23,757

I mean, yeah.

:

00:54:23,757 --> 00:54:26,847

And it's like one of many, it's

like, we're each being called in our

:

00:54:26,847 --> 00:54:30,107

own way to do the work differently

and to do it in different places.

:

00:54:30,107 --> 00:54:31,577

And it's important to everywhere.

:

00:54:31,997 --> 00:54:36,297

I just, you know, between that story,

I just told you in the fact that I've

:

00:54:36,297 --> 00:54:39,897

now heard from several women and I had

my own experience with this, which I

:

00:54:39,897 --> 00:54:44,017

won't go into right now, but I've heard

from several women that when they've

:

00:54:44,017 --> 00:54:51,427

gone to different sacred sites in

they've been shut down by the employees.

:

00:54:51,782 --> 00:54:53,152

basically and told to leave.

:

00:54:53,462 --> 00:54:57,642

So like, if they're doing like a

meditation at the Temple of Artemis,

:

00:54:57,652 --> 00:54:59,002

for example, was one story I heard.

:

00:54:59,002 --> 00:55:02,182

They gathered to do them and they

were told they needed to leave.

:

00:55:02,702 --> 00:55:04,532

And I've heard multiple stories like this.

:

00:55:04,532 --> 00:55:09,732

So it was like, like, There is

actually now a concerted effort to,

:

00:55:10,732 --> 00:55:12,452

oh, whoa, hello.

:

00:55:13,102 --> 00:55:17,302

Liz Childs Kelly: So for listeners,

there's just this wild explosion of

:

00:55:17,302 --> 00:55:19,272

fireworks behind Annalisa on the video.

:

00:55:19,272 --> 00:55:21,312

I don't know how that happened

and it feels significant.

:

00:55:21,722 --> 00:55:26,202

So go watch, if you're listening, instead

of watching on YouTube, go, go see this.

:

00:55:26,202 --> 00:55:27,172

This is pretty cool.

:

00:55:27,702 --> 00:55:29,082

That felt significant.

:

00:55:29,152 --> 00:55:29,582

All right.

:

00:55:30,102 --> 00:55:31,022

Annalisa Derr: It sure did.

:

00:55:31,402 --> 00:55:35,632

I'm like, I'm like, so deer in the

headlights right now in this moment.

:

00:55:35,832 --> 00:55:40,862

So anyway, I just, I think that what

that says to me is that the patriarchy

:

00:55:40,862 --> 00:55:44,172

is catching wind, that the divine

feminine is gaining strength and grace,

:

00:55:44,172 --> 00:55:48,542

and she's trying to, you know, bring

herself home to that land and bring back,

:

00:55:48,552 --> 00:55:56,522

you know, to regenerate herself and And

so, yeah, so I, that's, that's my call.

:

00:55:57,022 --> 00:55:57,882

Liz Childs Kelly: Well, I love it.

:

00:55:57,882 --> 00:56:02,322

And actually Cynthia does mention

in her book that she had one of

:

00:56:02,322 --> 00:56:05,752

the earth treasure vases out,

I think at Delphi or something.

:

00:56:05,762 --> 00:56:07,262

I'm not really sure, but it was, yeah.

:

00:56:07,262 --> 00:56:08,602

And somebody was like, what are you doing?

:

00:56:08,652 --> 00:56:09,112

What is that?

:

00:56:09,112 --> 00:56:11,552

You know, she had to like put it

away and kind of sneak off and

:

00:56:11,552 --> 00:56:12,542

find somewhere else to put it.

:

00:56:12,552 --> 00:56:12,822

Yeah.

:

00:56:12,822 --> 00:56:13,182

So

:

00:56:13,742 --> 00:56:15,562

Annalisa Derr: that was actually,

that's where I had the experience

:

00:56:15,912 --> 00:56:19,652

too, where I was kicked out of a

site in Delphi for trying to do it.

:

00:56:19,832 --> 00:56:22,002

I make these goddess performances

and I was like, okay.

:

00:56:22,072 --> 00:56:23,112

And I had to go do it.

:

00:56:23,352 --> 00:56:26,422

Like, I still did it in Delphi,

but like on the side of the road.

:

00:56:26,852 --> 00:56:27,142

Liz Childs Kelly: Wow.

:

00:56:28,012 --> 00:56:28,272

Annalisa Derr: Yeah.

:

00:56:29,162 --> 00:56:32,442

Liz Childs Kelly: Well as predicted

before we got on, I just knew I, this was

:

00:56:32,442 --> 00:56:35,522

going to fly by, and there's so much more

that I feel like we could talk about.

:

00:56:35,572 --> 00:56:37,882

So I think what I just need

to say is, can you come back?

:

00:56:37,882 --> 00:56:41,712

Will you please come back when, once

you've moved and your book is out and

:

00:56:41,722 --> 00:56:44,372

like, some of these things are in motion,

let's just do round two, where you can

:

00:56:44,372 --> 00:56:45,522

tell us all about what's happening.

:

00:56:45,932 --> 00:56:46,132

Okay.

:

00:56:46,132 --> 00:56:47,567

Annalisa Derr: I would love that.

:

00:56:48,377 --> 00:56:49,377

It's been such a pleasure.

:

00:56:49,377 --> 00:56:52,787

I love talking to you and I,

and I love your stories too.

:

00:56:52,787 --> 00:56:55,697

So I think I would be

thrilled to come back anytime.

:

00:56:56,337 --> 00:56:57,067

Liz Childs Kelly: It would be amazing.

:

00:56:57,067 --> 00:57:00,607

Well, I'm just super excited for you

and all that you have percolating

:

00:57:00,617 --> 00:57:05,057

and just super grateful for you

sharing your story and your time

:

00:57:05,157 --> 00:57:06,567

and your experiences with all of us.

:

00:57:06,587 --> 00:57:06,957

Yeah.

:

00:57:07,497 --> 00:57:08,407

Thank you so much.

:

00:57:08,577 --> 00:57:09,267

Yeah.

:

00:57:09,922 --> 00:57:10,432

So fun.

:

00:57:10,442 --> 00:57:12,782

And thanks to all of you

for listening as always.

:

00:57:13,382 --> 00:57:14,782

I've said this many times.

:

00:57:14,782 --> 00:57:19,742

I'd do it without you because I'm into

this, but this makes it more reasonable

:

00:57:19,742 --> 00:57:22,692

for me to spend a lot of my time doing

this is knowing that you're listening to.

:

00:57:22,692 --> 00:57:26,372

So thank you for joining me on

these fascinating conversations.

:

00:57:26,372 --> 00:57:28,442

And if you like the show,

you can subscribe to it.

:

00:57:28,442 --> 00:57:29,922

You can Give it a favorable review.

:

00:57:29,932 --> 00:57:31,122

You can tell all your friends about it.

:

00:57:31,122 --> 00:57:33,932

You can do all those

things if you so desire.

:

00:57:33,942 --> 00:57:37,852

And until next time, take very

good care of yourselves and enjoy

:

00:57:37,852 --> 00:57:40,822

your own journey to the goddess

and I will be with you again soon.

:

00:57:52,452 --> 00:57:55,072

Home to Her is hosted by me, Liz Kelly.

:

00:57:55,602 --> 00:57:58,282

You can visit me online at hometoher.

:

00:57:58,292 --> 00:58:01,982

com, where you can find show

notes and other episodes.

:

00:58:02,272 --> 00:58:05,992

You can read articles about the

Sacred Feminine, and you'll also

:

00:58:05,992 --> 00:58:09,272

find a link to join the Home to

Her Facebook group for lots more

:

00:58:09,272 --> 00:58:11,752

discussion and exploration of Her.

:

00:58:12,612 --> 00:58:16,662

You can also follow me on Instagram,

at home to her, to keep up to

:

00:58:16,662 --> 00:58:17,922

date with the latest episodes.

:

00:58:19,022 --> 00:58:21,512

Thanks so much for joining us

and we'll see you back here soon.

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About the Podcast

Home to Her
The Home to Her podcast is dedicated to elevating the wisdom of the Sacred Feminine. Join host Liz Kelly for intimate conversations with acclaimed authors, artists, teachers, poets and mystics, each of whom will help us learn more about Sacred Feminine history, Her spiritual ideas and how to connect with this wisdom right now.

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Liz Kelly