Episode 101

full
Published on:

14th Mar 2025

Seeking the Spiritual Mother with Rebe Huntman

On this episode, I'm joined by Rebe Huntman, a memoirist, essayist, dancer, teacher, and poet who writes at the intersections of feminism, world religion and spirituality. For over a decade she directed Chicago’s award-winning Danza Viva Center for World Dance, Art & Music and its dance company, One World Dance Theater. Huntman collaborates with native artists in Cuba and South America, has been featured in Latina Magazine, Chicago Magazine, and the Chicago Tribune, and has appeared on Fox and ABC. She is also the author of a new memoir, My Mother in Havana, about her explorations in seeking not only her human mother, who died when she was 19, but also a deeper relationship with the Divine Mother.

On this episode we discuss:

  • How Rebe’s path to the Sacred Feminine revealed itself through her evolving relationship with Latin dance – including how she discovered that the dances themselves were originally invitations to the gods
  • Rebe’s transformational journey in Cuba, including her experiences meeting the Orisha Oshun, and Our Lady of Charity of El Cobre
  • How Oshun, who originates from the West African Yoruba tradition, and Our Lady, who is considered an apparition of the Virgin Mary, are syncretized – and how this merging can give us a more holistic vision of mothers and women in general
  • Rebe’s evolving relationship with her deceased mother, and why it’s both normal and natural to call on our deceased loved ones for support

Notes related to this episode:

  • You can learn more about Rebe and her book at her website, www.rebehuntman.com.
  • You can also find her on social media: Instagram @rebehuntman; Facebook @rebehuntmanauthor.
  • We discussed the books the Chalice and the Blade, by Riane Eisler, as well as Women Who Run with the Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Estes.

Other related episodes include:

Here are a few more details about this show and my work:

  • If you’d like to know whose ancestral tribal lands you currently reside on, you can look up your address here: https://native-land.ca/  
  • You can also visit the Coalition of Natives and Allies for more helpful educational resources about Indigenous rights and history.
  • Please – if you love this podcast and/or have read my book, please consider leaving me a review, and thank you for supporting my work! You can also access the audio version of this episode here, or wherever you access your podcasts: https://home-to-her.captivate.fm/
  • For more Sacred Feminine goodness and to stay up to date on all episodes, please follow me on Instagram: @hometoher. To dive into conversation about the Sacred Feminine, join the Facebook group, also @hometoher.
  • And to read about the Sacred Feminine, check out my award-winning book Home to Her: Walking the Transformative Path of the Sacred Feminine (Womancraft Publishing), available on Audible and wherever you buy your books!. If you've read it, your reviews on Goodreads and Amazon are greatly appreciated!
  • Visit www.hometoher.com to learn more about your host, check out upcoming courses and download your free ebook 5 Ancient Secrets of Female Power.
Transcript
Speaker:

Liz Childs Kelly: Hello, and welcome

to Home to Her, the podcast that's

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dedicated to reclaiming the lost and

stolen wisdom of the sacred feminine.

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I'm your host, Liz Kelley, and on

each episode, we explore her stories

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and myths, her spiritual principles,

and most importantly, what this

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wisdom has to offer us right now.

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Thanks for being here.

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Let's get started.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Hey everybody, this is Liz, joining

you as usual from central Virginia

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and the unceded lands of the

Monacan Nation, and I am so glad

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that you are here with me today.

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And if you would like to know whose

native lands that you are residing

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on go check out native land.

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ca.

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There's a really helpful map there,

particularly for North America,

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probably for the whole world, because

I think they've got the whole world

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on there, but I know for a fact that

it's really helpful for North America.

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And I will put that in the

show notes as I always do if

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you want to go check that out.

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And if you would like to learn more

about the Sacred Feminine, there's

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lots of ways that you can do that.

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You can go through many past podcast

episodes that I've hosted here and

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hear from so many amazing people.

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But if you want to learn from me, you

can check out my book, Home to Her.

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Walking the transformative

path of the sacred feminine.

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It's available on audible.

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If you like listening to me,

you can hear me read to you.

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And it's available wherever

you want to buy your books.

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And then if you go to home to her.

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com and check that out, you'll

find articles I've written

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links to past podcast episodes.

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I'm working on on demand courses for

some things that I've taught earlier.

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And I've said that before here, but I

really, really do mean it this time.

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They're coming up hopefully very soon.

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And I'll put all that in the

show notes for you as well.

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So my guest today has written a beautiful

memoir that explores the relationship

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with mother at both the individual level.

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So, what it means to be in relationship

with one's own mother, what it means to

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navigate the loss of your mother, and

the larger spiritual concept of mother

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in general, as embodied through the

sacred feminine and how we know her.

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And so I'm so honored to be in

conversation with her today.

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Rebe Huntman is a memoirist,

essayist, dance teacher, dancer.

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teacher and poet who writes at

the intersections of feminism,

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world religion, and spirituality.

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When I read that, I was like,

that's where I want to live.

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I think I want my address right there.

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Right, let's just move in there.

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For over a decade, she directed Chicago's

award winning Danza Viva Center for

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World Dance, Art and Music, and its

dance company, One World Dance Theater.

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Huntman collaborates with native artists

in Cuba and South America, has been

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featured in Latina Magazine, Chicago

Magazine, and the Chicago Tribune,

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and has appeared on Fox and ABC.

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A Macondo Fellow and recipient of an

Ohio Individual Excellence Award, Huntman

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has received support for her debut

memoir, My Mother in Havana from the

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Ohio State University, Virginia Center

for Creative Arts, Ragdale Foundation.

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Playa Residency, hambage Center

and Brush Creek Foundation.

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She lives in Delaware, Ohio and San

Miguel de Allende, Mexico and is joining

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us from her home in Delaware, Ohio.

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Rebe, thank you so much for being here.

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It's an honor to have you.

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Rebe Huntman: Thank you, Liz.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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It's such a pleasure to be here

with you and your listeners today.

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And what a beautiful,

beautiful introduction.

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I love how you described the book.

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Liz Childs Kelly: I'm so

enjoying experiencing it.

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It's, it's so beautifully written.

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And on the back of the book, it

describes your writing like, like dance.

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I didn't read the back of the book

until I was already well into the book.

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And I was like, oh, it does, what a

beautiful description, because the way you

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kind of weave back and forth, there's a

movement to your writing that I just, as

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a fellow writer, I really, I really love.

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So I'm super excited to be in

conversation with you today.

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Thank you.

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Yeah.

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And I love to start with people usually by

talking about their spiritual backgrounds

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and there's a couple reasons for that.

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One is I'm just curious.

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I like to hear.

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But the other is that I found in my

own work with the sacred feminine

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is that sometimes there are things

that we experience in our are

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upbringing related to religion

and spirituality that are helpful.

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And sometimes there are things that

really are not that we have to overcome.

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And so I'd like to hear about

people's perspectives, you know,

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and how that has sort of evolved.

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So I'd love to start there

if that's okay with you.

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Thank

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Rebe Huntman: you.

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That's wonderful.

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I like to say that I was raised in

the church of coffee hour, meaning

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that it seemed to me in the church

of my childhood that the main reason

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my parents went and took me was

because they loved coffee hour.

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It was all about that hour after

church was over and talking with

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other people and, and, and schmoozing.

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And which is to say that I didn't grow up

I was not particularly in touch with any

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spiritual or religious tradition, even

though I did physically go to church.

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And that was a, a Congregationalist

church, a Protestant church in St.

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Louis.

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But I became really interested in

my twenties in the cross section

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between feminism and spirituality.

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And there was so many great

books coming out at that time.

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And I was a college student living on

the north side of Chicago and spent a

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lot of time with women and children.

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You know, first bookstore and you know,

so very interested in the, in the divine

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mother and the divine feminine kind of

has been braided, you know, throughout my

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life although it hasn't been a constant

I've gone through a lot of iterations

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of, of, you know, places where I found

spiritual support and foundation,

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you know, throughout the years.

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And I write about that in my book

that, you know, I, I have kind of a

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neglected background, everything from

a Pentecostal church to more of a you

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know, meditating and eyes closed kind

of, you know, Buddhist experience.

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But the book I wrote and, and

where I really find myself centered

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right now is really back with the

sacred feminine and just really

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understanding how How much she's

needed and how valuable she's needed.

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And so in the book I write

specifically about Our Lady of

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Charity, who's Cuba's patron saint.

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And for those who of your listeners

who might not be familiar with her she

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is, I like to say, Cuba's equivalent

or It's similar to Mexico's Guadalupe.

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She's their patron saint.

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She's their be all and end all.

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She's just celebrated in such a widespread

and beautiful way throughout Cuba.

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And, and as I'm sure we'll be talking

about, she's then syncretized with

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the African fertility goddess Oshun.

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So you get two mothers for one in Cuba.

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Well, actually more than that.

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But those are the two mothers

that my book really focuses on.

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Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah, I love that.

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And I wasn't familiar with Our Lady

of Charity until, which is to me it's

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always exciting to, so my research has

been into the sacred feminine as well.

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And just for much for like, like more

of a, as opposed to like a deep into

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one particular tradition or goddess.

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Or sacred feminine figure.

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It's been broader, you know, just wanting

to demonstrate how present she's been

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throughout time and across cultures.

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And so I found a lot of information

about her, but this one I didn't know.

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And I always get so excited when I

find when I, I don't find when I am.

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Blessedly introduced to a

different incarnation of her.

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So that was very exciting to me.

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I want to go back just because I'm going

to put you on the spot just because I'm

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curious because you mentioned you know,

exploring this feminism and spirituality.

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And I, do you remember any

of the books that you read?

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I'm just, I'm, I know I'm

putting you on the spot.

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If you don't, it's okay.

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But I'm so curious.

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Rebe Huntman: I mean, the books that

really, I mean, impacted, again,

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you know, I'm, I'm thinking about my

early 20s and I'm in my early 60s now.

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Just, just over, just over the edge of 60.

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But I mean, a chalice on the

blade was such an important book.

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I mean, huge, right.

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And then, you know, women who run with the

wolves and, you know, the kind of, those

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were the books that were really feeding

my spirit and getting me really excited.

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At that time the there was a, I don't

remember the title, but you know, I

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also, you know, books about Inanna and,

you know, descending to the underworld.

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And, you know, I was really

smitten, you know, with her.

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So yeah, those are a few.

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Liz Childs Kelly: So good too.

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And listeners, I will put those in

the show notes if you want to look.

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But Rianne Eisler, who wrote

Chalice and the Blade was actually

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on the podcast late last year.

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So I'll put a link to that too.

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It was such an amazing thing

to be in conversation with her.

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Yeah, I was only, I was curious because

there were I went through a similar,

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you know, I think a little later than

you, but exploring that very same topic.

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So I'm like, I wonder if there's any

that I didn't hit that you didn't hit.

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Well, and I think you've already kind

of touched on the sacred feminine, but

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would you say that, like, she really

came forward for you through this

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exploration that, that became this,

the memoir, or is that when you first

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sensed her presence or how did you first

understand, in whatever language works

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for you, divine feminine, sacred feminine?

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Rebe Huntman: Yeah.

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That's a really good question.

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And I, I, what I love about my journey

is that it kind of defies in many ways,

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linear answers and, you know, answers

where, oh, from, I got from point A to

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point B in this really straight fashion.

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To me, this has been a really intuitive.

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You know, the book is called My

Mother in Havana, A Memoir of Magic

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and Miracle, and I feel like every

step of this process has been really

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infused with with magic and miracle.

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So how I stumbled upon Oh Shun

and Our Lady of Charity, It grew

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organically out of my experience as

a Latin dancer and choreographer.

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I was teaching Afro Cuban

and Latin dance in Chicago.

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I was running a dance

company, a professional dance

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company, and training them.

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And I was very aware that the

dances that I called Latin dances,

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and that I knew and that I'd

studied and learned here in the U.

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S.,

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We're kind of convoluted and,

and, and a little stretched far

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from their original roots in Cuba.

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And so I traveled to Cuba,

I wanted to study, I wanted

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to really know these dances.

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And so I went, really, it was

not a spiritual quest at all.

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It was just in my capacity as a

professional dancer, I wanted to

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trace those origins of those dances.

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And I, I collaborated with

choreographers in Havana.

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And what I found was just astounding

because these dances that we know, the

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cha cha cha, the, rumba, salsa, mambo,

all these dances that we think of as,

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celebratory and performative trace their

roots to spiritual dances and sacred

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dance and dances that call forth the gods.

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And I'm.

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Speaking right now about the Afro Cuban

religions, such as Santeria and in those

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traditions, there is one God, they are

monotheistic religions, there's one

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God, but the idea is that that God is

too incomprehensible and too vast to

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meet face to face, and so there are

intermediary gods that we have everyday

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relationships with, and in order to

call those gods, To us, in order to

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summon them, we do that by offering

the music, the drum beats, the dances,

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the movements that they resonate with.

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So, for example, when I was in Havana, I

learned the repertoire of many, many of

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the Orishas, or gods, Afro Cuban gods.

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And one that really,

really struck me was Oshun.

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She's the Afro Cuban deity of rivers

and fertility and love and sexuality and

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money and power and all kinds of things.

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She's really a dynamic deity.

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And I studied and performed her movements.

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And so the movements imitate

the flow of the river, right?

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And the, the drumbeats, are evoking

the things that, that Oshun loves most.

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What I saw in Havana was not only did I

study these repertoires and study these

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steps, but I had the opportunity to

see them, and I use the word performed

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lightly, because it was not a performance.

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It was sacred.

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It took place in a nightclub, but it was,

it was sacred and it was intentional.

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These movements were being performed

to summon the gods, and I watched

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dancers slip away as they were

literally their movement stopped

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being their own and became the orisha

or god that they were calling forth.

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And that was a game changer for me.

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Because here I was, you know, a

choreographer, a dancer, where

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all of my training and all of

my focus was about presentation.

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Right?

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Rather than substance.

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And which isn't to say that it wasn't

substantive or that I didn't want it to

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be, but the focus was really on presenting

a dance, choreographing, curating.

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And here was something so

different and so spiritual.

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So to answer your question of how

did I, how did she come to me?

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She came to me through this unexpected

means where I hadn't been looking

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for her at all, but she appeared

to me and she really captivated me.

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And that was in 2004.

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And then.

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It wasn't until nine years later, , I,

I kind of, I came home, I came home, I

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was in tears when I came home because

it was, it was so hard to leave that

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kind of a world where the sacred was

so alive and so palpable and but I came

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back and, , continued my life and nine

years later , I was thinking about my

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mother who I lost when I was 19 and then

I missed her very much when I lost her.

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She and I were very close.

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I would say that I was

bereft when I lost her.

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But conventional wisdom at that time

had told me to kind of forget about her

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and not, not really think about her and

move on and make something of myself.

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I was a college sophomore and the idea

was, you know, just focus on your grades.

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Keep moving.

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And I kept moving.

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I was so good at moving.

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And I just kept moving and moving,

and when I was right at the edge

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of 50, I realized I missed her

so much, and I wanted a way back

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to her, and I didn't know how.

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I had done such a good job of moving

on, I, I could barely remember the

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temperature of her skin or the feel

of her touch, but I missed her so

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much, I mean, just, I longed for her.

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And so my question was If I miss my

mother so much, but she's been gone

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so long, and I've forgotten so much

of her, what is it that I'm missing?

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What is this thing called

mother, right, that transcends

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our biological version of her?

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And that set me on a path.

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To answer that question and like all

good quests, it started at the library,

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just I was surrounded by books about

the mother and the divine feminine and

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literally a book fell open about the

divine mother in Cuba and not only Oshun,

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who I was already familiar with, but her

Catholic counterpart, Our Lady of Charity,

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and that's how the adventure began.

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Liz Childs Kelly: Amazing and you,

I want to go back to this, this.

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description that you had of

the dancers, and how it wasn't

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necessarily a choreographed thing.

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It was deeply spiritual because that's, I

loved, I love that passage in your book.

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I think you write about that so

viscerally and I could imagine what

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it might feel like to be part of that.

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And it was just also reflecting for

myself as you were speaking, how It seems

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so natural that, that divinity would be

encoded in something like dance and that

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the unnatural thing would be that we have

somehow separated the sacred, like pulled

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it out and been like, no, this is this,

and this is the sacred it's, I think for

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so many of us, this experience of the

sacred feminine coming through comes in so

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called ordinary But also places we aren't

looking for her, like in an unexpected

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way, like we're not out seeking her, maybe

because we don't know that she exists.

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She's in the space of the dance.

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For me, she found me at a business

conference of all places, but,

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but that she is everywhere.

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And so therefore we get to, she is able

to reach out to us and, and find us in the

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space that we are when we need to be met

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Rebe Huntman: Oh, that's really beautiful.

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And I, I so agree.

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And I love, I think, I love being

on your show, and I love your

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whole perspective of really looking

at her and all of her faces.

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We're talking today about particular

face or faces of the Divine Feminine,

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but I love the ubiquitousness of her.

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I love how firmly planted she is in

spiritual traditions around the world.

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I feel like My experience, and

I'll only speak from my experience,

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was that growing up in the U.

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S.,

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she was, felt very inaccessible.

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I mean, we had the Virgin Mary, you

asked about my church experience.

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She was there, but not there, right?

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Like, she was this peripheral figure that

was not really visually represented or

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mentioned very often, except for in her

role as the mother of the important guy.

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And so Cuba, for me was such an eye

opener because it's the opposite there.

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She is so widely celebrated.

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She's got and I, I, when I went, when I

went there, I gave myself three tasks,

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or three missions, three objectives.

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In 2013, when I was missing my

mom, like I said, and I, I was

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needing to connect with her.

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I was needing to find how to connect

with that thing called mother.

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And I went to Cuba.

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I spent 30 days there.

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And this is the kind of the core or

the spine, the narrative spine of the

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book is talking about this quest, this

pilgrimage that I set up for myself.

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I spent 15 days in Havana

working with Santeria priests and

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priestesses, relearning the steps

of Oshun immersing myself in rituals

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and initiations that honor her.

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And then I traveled to the Eastern part

of the island to meet Our Lady of Charity.

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The, her Catholic manifestation, our

counterpart and they are this was

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kind of the finale of the whole trip.

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I had read that there were pilgrimages

in the tens of thousands and that Cubans

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would travel from all over the country

and they, some of them on their hands and

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their feet, others, you know, in buses,

they just, they travel the back roads.

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They just, they would come to

honor her on her feast days and

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this happens, as you know, in, in

various parts of the world, but I

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had never seen it in my own country.

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And I wanted to be part of that.

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I wanted to be one of tens of

thousands that were marching

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and celebrating the mother.

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So that was part of it.

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And then I also met with a spiritist

that I had heard of, a man who is

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said to be able to channel the dead.

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:

And I asked him to channel

my mother's spirit.

332

:

So those are the three, kind of the three.

333

:

Quests that I was on during that

time and then the writing of the

334

:

book obviously is talking about what

I found in all those experiences.

335

:

And I really wanted in writing the

book to feel like I was caring.

336

:

My reader along with me, right,

like they could be experiencing

337

:

all these things that aren't

widely available, here in the U.

338

:

S.

339

:

or, to many people, but I

really wanted to take them on my

340

:

shoulders as as kind of together.

341

:

We knock on this veil between the

material world and the spiritual world

342

:

the mundane and the miraculous and divine.

343

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah, I love it.

344

:

And I do have a, I have a question for

you that I'm just, I'm curious about

345

:

because I'm, I want to know what it was

like for you as a, well, first of all, do

346

:

you have Latin American heritage at all?

347

:

Rebe Huntman: I laugh because that's

remember when I when I started out by

348

:

saying there's nothing about this story

that follows a linear trajectory, right?

349

:

I don't have Latin American heritage.

350

:

I am not Cuban.

351

:

My mother is not Cuban.

352

:

The book is called My Mother in Havana.

353

:

And that is a nod to

the finding my mother.

354

:

Through the spiritual traditions of

Cuba and being able to connect with her.

355

:

It's also nods at the fact that my

mother did spend time in Cuba, which

356

:

I, I talk about in the book and I kind

of follow and imagine into what her

357

:

experience as a woman living in the

:

358

:

throughout Cuba with my father.

359

:

I have an incredible affinity.

360

:

I've spoken.

361

:

I've spoken fluent Spanish

since I was a child.

362

:

I've traveled a lot

throughout Latin America.

363

:

I've always been drawn so I feel

very comfortable speaking Spanish.

364

:

And I think that really helped me

in terms of , grounding me and, and

365

:

giving me some level of comfort as I

navigated, these experiences in Cuba.

366

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah, and I guess that's

a kind of a question for you too is you

367

:

know, so what have you, what do you, what

do you make intuitively of that connection

368

:

to that culture because you, you studied

the dance, there's the culture itself, you

369

:

were drawn there when you wanted to seek

this deeper connection with your mother

370

:

and with the concept of mother and yeah,

what do you, what do you make of that?

371

:

Because it also seems so very You know,

like there's the, that as you write about

372

:

it, it feels like nothing forced, like

almost like an inevitability that that,

373

:

that you, you belong there in some way.

374

:

Rebe Huntman: Yeah, I am.

375

:

I'm really interested in that.

376

:

And again, because this is a book

about the feminine and about a

377

:

feminine quest that I'm interested

in the way something can both be far

378

:

fetched and totally inevitable, right?

379

:

Like, not natural in the sense

that, again, neither my mother nor

380

:

I are Cuban, and yet absolutely,

sometimes life calls you, right?

381

:

And you have this intuitive pull, and

I think I'm sure that your listeners,

382

:

many of them, have had that experience,

right, where we just feel something, we

383

:

feel we belong somewhere, or something

intrigues us and we don't know why,

384

:

and maybe the person next to us isn't

intrigued at all, but for us, it's like,

385

:

it pulls us in a certain direction,

and, I think we're being guided in

386

:

certain ways, and I think that the world

of belonging and where we belong and

387

:

where we find belonging is much wider

than we live in a very polarized time.

388

:

but I feel that the, the mother, one

of her great gifts to us when we speak

389

:

about the sacred mother is that we

are all held that we are all family

390

:

in the sense that if we chase and

follow the lines of our stories, our

391

:

individual stories, and we really tap

into the deeper and longer story of

392

:

our ancestors, we find that we're all

connected in beautiful and wonderful ways.

393

:

Liz Childs Kelly: The other thing that

kind of comes up for me is I, so I

394

:

mentioned that I, I found the sacred

feminine at a business conference.

395

:

But the, the conversation that sparked

it, the woman that sparked it was talking

396

:

about native Hawaiians, indigenous Pacific

Islanders and it opened up the portal

397

:

through which I eventually found her.

398

:

And I've reflected on that.

399

:

Yeah.

400

:

And I, I wonder too, if it's the,

which you said earlier that, you

401

:

know, Mary was there, but not

there in your church experience.

402

:

And I think that's very true for a

lot of us that have grown up in the

403

:

U S and I didn't grow up Catholic.

404

:

I grew up Southern Baptist.

405

:

So Mary wasn't even there.

406

:

She was just not there at all.

407

:

So I wonder sometimes if

it's almost necessary.

408

:

for those of us who have been so

stripped of her, to find her through

409

:

other other traditions that have

figured out a way to hold on to her and

410

:

keep her alive in ways that it didn't

happen for our ancestors necessarily,

411

:

or not as, not as in as immediate way.

412

:

Yeah,

413

:

Rebe Huntman: no, I

totally agree with that.

414

:

And, you know, I'm very aware and

very careful, throughout the book.

415

:

And as I talk about the book,

to be very clear, I'm a person

416

:

who's passionate about Cuba.

417

:

I have found, friends and family and

interests There that just really tie me

418

:

to the island, but I'm not Cuban and I

don't speak for people who have grown up

419

:

in that culture and who are really, really

immersed in the spiritual traditions.

420

:

I am exactly what I am.

421

:

I'm a person who couldn't find what

I was looking for in my own country

422

:

and knew that there was another way.

423

:

And I'm so grateful to have been

exposed to And been able to enter a

424

:

world in which the mother is still

revered and, and what's interesting

425

:

is it wasn't until Oshun called me

and through these experiences and

426

:

writing the book that I thought, Hmm,

I wonder about my own heritage, right?

427

:

What was, what did the divine

mother, which is a silly question

428

:

to ask when you're as old as I am.

429

:

I don't know why I never asked

that earlier, or I guess I wasn't

430

:

I didn't have the motivation.

431

:

But we all come from.

432

:

A culture in which the mother was at one

time really celebrated and worshipped.

433

:

And a Mexican friend of

mine says that in the U.

434

:

S.

435

:

we're, we're all like weeds

that have had our roots cut.

436

:

Right?

437

:

We've been cut off from our roots, but

if we go back to the, the lands that

438

:

we were originally from and if we

could talk with our grandmothers and

439

:

our great grandmothers, I think some

of them would have some really great

440

:

stories to tell us about the mother.

441

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah.

442

:

Oh, I'm sure if we went back far

enough, I think we, we probably could.

443

:

And I, I think I, I just wanted to say

too, that in reading your book, what,

444

:

what I experience in reading it is,

is a real reverence to that culture

445

:

and to the, these expressions of the

mother which I think is really beautiful.

446

:

I, one thing that I was really curious

to talk to you about and you write about

447

:

this, but it also is very, I think, kind

of foreign to a lot of people who are

448

:

Westerners or from the United States,

is this easeful, the way you describe

449

:

it, it seems easeful to me, this easeful

synchronization of Oshun and Our Lady

450

:

of Charity, who, is a representation

of the Virgin Mary, which I think for

451

:

those of us in the US, you wouldn't

necessarily, you don't see that like

452

:

the, goddess roots are there, for sure,

they've just been deeply, deeply buried

453

:

in Europe but they're not so buried in

other cultures, and so I wonder what that

454

:

experience was like for you to see, here

is this well, is it Santeria in Cuba, I

455

:

was going to say Yoruba, but, you know,

right, this goddess Oshun, Orisha Oshun.

456

:

So, so easefully combined with who

we might think of as the Virgin Mary.

457

:

Rebe Huntman: Yes.

458

:

And so just to showcase just how

foreign an idea that was for me

459

:

as someone growing up in the U.

460

:

S.

461

:

And not only growing up in the U.

462

:

S.,

463

:

but I think growing up, we have

very, a very binary way of thinking.

464

:

And particularly, when it comes to

women, I grew up with these ideas.

465

:

A woman could be this or

she could be that, right?

466

:

She, and, and there were a lot of

rules and a lot of this or that.

467

:

But I had never been confronted

with something as wild

468

:

an idea as I was in Cuba.

469

:

And this is one of the reasons I

had to go there to explore this idea

470

:

because it was mind blowing to me.

471

:

How could this Mary and Madonna, this,

this incarnation of the Mother Mary,

472

:

Our Lady of Charity, who is, depicted

as being very chaste, and she's also an

473

:

object, so not only was she an apparition,

but she is an, an actual icon that was

474

:

found a statue about a foot and a half

tall that was found floating in the

475

:

waters, So you can go visit, so she's

a statue or I mean when I met her I

476

:

thought wow, she looks like a doll, right?

477

:

A doll or a statue.

478

:

Who's an incarnation of the Virgin Mary,

chaste, and how can many Cubans hold

479

:

her in the same hand that they hold

Oshun, this African deity of rivers

480

:

and sensuality and love and, who's very

mercurial, her her moods change she can

481

:

be very vindictive, right she can be the

life of the party, she can appear as a

482

:

mermaid, she can appear as a vulture,

she has all these different guises, so

483

:

she herself, right, contains multitudes,

but this idea that That a woman, that

484

:

a mother could contain multitudes.

485

:

I, I could not connect

those dots in my head.

486

:

I could not, I was like,

how, how can this be?

487

:

How can this be?

488

:

And I spent, 30 days in Cuba

asking everybody that question.

489

:

Like, just really, how can the two be one?

490

:

How can the two be one?

491

:

And then years later, because

the book wasn't finished after 30

492

:

days, I kept going back to Cuba.

493

:

I kept Interviewing people and

doing more research and, and so

494

:

this question was a big one, right?

495

:

And, and I laugh now because,

the answer isn't that convoluted.

496

:

It's yes, the mother is.

497

:

This and that and that and that and that

she's vast and she contains multitudes

498

:

and She meets us like you already said

where we're at no matter where that's

499

:

at, but she has so many different faces

and that gives Me so much permission.

500

:

I know personally as a woman to also

see that in myself that I don't have

501

:

to be this or that I can be all of it.

502

:

Like what?

503

:

What a beautiful.

504

:

This is what I love so much about

the spiritual mother in Cuba and

505

:

why I think this book, My Mother

in Havana is really important.

506

:

And it was important for me, and I think

that I hope that it will be healing and

507

:

important for a lot of women to meet

this template of, of just how vast and

508

:

wonderful and marvelous we actually are.

509

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah as you were

saying that, I was thinking a couple

510

:

things, but one is that I've certainly

thought about in terms of patriarchal

511

:

systems of domination and how they

really limit the roles of women and

512

:

how we tend to contort ourselves

to ideals as opposed to a reality.

513

:

And I don't think until you had said

this, like the little dots hadn't quite

514

:

connected in my head that like, oh, if

we were given the better representation

515

:

specifically of the mother and all her

complexities and that we we grew up in

516

:

a culture that could revere that and

honor that and celebrate it and didn't

517

:

experience it as a contradiction just was

like but this is what is like what that

518

:

might feel like for ourselves and our

daughters and our and in our bodies and in

519

:

our day to day experiences and and I would

imagine that's one of many reasons that

520

:

So many of us, and I'm guessing listeners,

you know, go out seeking or are sought by

521

:

the sacred feminine because we need that.

522

:

We need that whole representation of the

complexity of what it means to be a woman,

523

:

including what it means to be a mother.

524

:

Rebe Huntman: Yeah, I mean, I get

emotional when I think about it because

525

:

I spent not only my, I think back on

my own life as a young woman and how

526

:

many ways I tied myself into knots to

please someone else's expectations or

527

:

ideas and that ever changing landscape.

528

:

Of, all the shoulds, right?

529

:

But they were always changing.

530

:

And I always thought, I felt like,

wow, there's a rule book out there.

531

:

I'm not really sure what all, I mean,

I know what some of the rules are.

532

:

I know I'm not getting it right,

but there is no rule book.

533

:

I mean, I'm, I'm so I.

534

:

One of the things I say in the book

is that I wanted to give not only

535

:

myself a do over, but I wanted to

give my mother even more a do over.

536

:

I think there was such sadness and

I think that was one of the things

537

:

that set me off on the pilgrimage.

538

:

There were a number of things like I said,

when I was about to turn 50 and I felt

539

:

myself missing my mother more than ever.

540

:

Part of it was that I, I

couldn't fill in the, the blanks.

541

:

I, I couldn't remember.

542

:

that I had really betrayed her

by moving on with my own life

543

:

and prioritizing moving ahead

rather than holding her close.

544

:

The other thing was I was looking at my

mother's life and how much she sacrificed

545

:

and how much the times that she lived

in put such lofty expectations on her.

546

:

And myself included, you know, we expect

our mothers to be so much and I'm very

547

:

aware that, not everybody who reads

my book is going to necessarily have

548

:

the same relationship they had with

their mother that I had with mine.

549

:

We have all kinds of

relationships with our mothers.

550

:

We have loving ones.

551

:

We have disappointing ones.

552

:

We have tragic ones.

553

:

I mean, we have all kinds of relationships

with our mother, but I think in no matter

554

:

what the case, the, the expectations

placed on the mother are enormous

555

:

for her to be what we need her to be.

556

:

And there's a real

liberation realizing that.

557

:

That she's bigger than that and

that we can allow and forgive and

558

:

understand our own mothers and

ourselves as being just a slice of

559

:

this larger spiritual mother, right?

560

:

We're never going to live up to

what the spiritual mother can

561

:

hold for us, but we're like little

glimmers and little mirrors.

562

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah, and you're,

you're making me think of a few years

563

:

ago, Bethany Webster, who's written a good

bit about the mother wound was on this

564

:

show and she talks about how the simple

reality that surviving in a patriarchal

565

:

culture, it, it pits mothers and daughters

against each other inherently because

566

:

everybody, all women are sort of.

567

:

are jockeying for position and scraps of

what the patriarchy is going to give them.

568

:

And so, you are automatically set up

for opposition, and there can be a

569

:

lot of compassion and forgiveness if

those relationships are difficult.

570

:

You know, I think her work is

meant to tell you it's okay to

571

:

separate from your mother if that

relationship is not supportive.

572

:

And for me, in reading her work, it also

gave me a very compassionate lens of like,

573

:

oh, boy, this is, we put a lot on mothers.

574

:

And I, I guess I, one of the things I'm

wanting to ask you, because I lost my

575

:

father at the same age that you lost your

mom, I was 19 when my father died, and so

576

:

I know that parental loss in a different

way, and one of the tragedies I think of

577

:

that, I, I think as we get older If we're

lucky, maybe we have the opportunity to

578

:

see our parents in a different light.

579

:

We start to know them as

entities beyond ourselves that

580

:

have faced other challenges.

581

:

And, you know, we can maybe understand

them and sometimes, they're still

582

:

all up in our business and they

annoy the crap out of us like that.

583

:

That is what it is.

584

:

But then when we lose a parent

young, we don't, we, we, we lose

585

:

that opportunity to be able to

see them as a more whole person.

586

:

And So I guess I'm wanting to ask

you, like, through this process,

587

:

like, I totally understand when you

say 30 years out, you're missing

588

:

your mom, I'm like, oh, I get it.

589

:

I really do get it it's almost like,

in a way, that's when you start missing

590

:

them, you know, when you start to

understand, like, this is a full human,

591

:

like, who, you know, who were you?

592

:

Who could you be?

593

:

But I'm, can you, maybe without giving

spoilers, you know, and that's your

594

:

whole book, but can you talk about,

like, What you, what you learned about,

595

:

like, how, where, you know, how did

this kind of guide you towards knowing

596

:

her better and, and filling in that,

that hole that you had when she died?

597

:

Yeah,

598

:

Rebe Huntman: so many, so many beautiful

things in, in what you just said.

599

:

I think that part of it was just giving

myself the time and the permission to

600

:

spend asking, holding those bits that I.

601

:

anchors or bits of like, I know that

my mother said this because she wrote

602

:

it down in a letter and I can read the

letter and I'm sure of this fact, right?

603

:

I'm sure of this.

604

:

Or here's a photograph

that I can look into.

605

:

I'm certain this is my

mother and me at the beach.

606

:

But then really have a conversation

with what's outside the frame of

607

:

those pictures and those words and

allow myself to imagine into her life

608

:

which is one of the reasons I follow

, throughout through Cuba in:

609

:

really imagine what was that like.

610

:

And if she had met Our Lady of

Charity, what would she have

611

:

made of Our Lady of Charity?

612

:

And, and just really wanting

to solve these questions.

613

:

You said, That when we lose a parent

early, we miss that opportunity

614

:

to know them, but we don't just

miss the opportunity to know them.

615

:

I think, and I will only speak to my own

experience, one thing I know I missed was

616

:

the opportunity to be an adult woman and

look my mother as an adult woman in the

617

:

eyes and say, I don't agree with you.

618

:

Right.

619

:

I don't like this about you.

620

:

I don't want to live my life in this

way, just that's something that

621

:

women who keep their mothers, get to

have that back and forth and that,

622

:

Oh God, my mother's making me crazy.

623

:

Right.

624

:

I never, I never got that.

625

:

Right.

626

:

So I had to kind of and, and I feel

it's a really formative thing in a,

627

:

in a woman's life is to be able to

kind of position herself and say,

628

:

I'm like my mother in these ways.

629

:

I'm not like her in these ways.

630

:

So I missed that.

631

:

So it was more having, spending these,

and it took me, it took me six or

632

:

seven years to write the book and

spending that time with her, like

633

:

really in with her memory and trying

to reconstruct that relationship.

634

:

And I found it healing.

635

:

Very healing.

636

:

I think one of the most healing things

I learned in Cuba, and I know we haven't

637

:

talked about it yet because we're

mainly talking about the spiritual

638

:

mother, but those same Afro Cuban

cultures that venerate and cherish the

639

:

mother also really keep the dead close.

640

:

They and this was one of the great

permissions of the pilgrimage to Cuba

641

:

because I found that here in the U.

642

:

S.

643

:

My experience was, yeah,

don't go getting crazy.

644

:

Don't go getting weepy.

645

:

I learned very young that people Really

weren't comfortable with my grief

646

:

and wanted me to get better and move

past my grief and not sit with it.

647

:

And and that was one of the

things that I was really

648

:

rebelling against when I was 50.

649

:

It was like, wow, I've done some damage

by following that advice because it

650

:

has robbed me of having a relationship

with the person I most wanted to have a

651

:

relationship with, which was my mother.

652

:

And in Cuba.

653

:

You mentioned earlier, is it Yoruba, is

it Santeria, that it's the Yoruba religion

654

:

of, of West Africa that was brought to

Cuba and that then mixed with the Catholic

655

:

traditions of, or was syncretized with

the, you know, Catholic traditions.

656

:

So it's both Yoruba and, and,

and Santeria, but the idea is

657

:

the Yoruba they don't say, I'm

going to go speak with my mom.

658

:

My deceased mother.

659

:

They just said I'm going to go speak with

my mother and there's a tradition in West

660

:

Africa of burying the ancestors under the

floorboards of the house literally because

661

:

you want to be in conversation with them

daily and keep them with you and ask for

662

:

help and guidance and and so What I was

gifted and what I, again, I, I, I feel

663

:

was so healing for me and I hope is for,

for readers as well as to see this very

664

:

different culture at work in which it's

not only okay, it's healthy and whole

665

:

to keep our beloveds close to us and be

in daily contact with them and light a

666

:

candle and, and have their photographs

out and eat dinner with them and, and,

667

:

and just, Yeah, so I have a relationship

with my mother after all these years

668

:

that feels really full and really whole.

669

:

Liz Childs Kelly: That's so great.

670

:

I was going to ask you that.

671

:

I was just thinking about, I don't

know if for viewers, if you can

672

:

see over my shoulder, but there

is a picture of a young A young

673

:

boy in black and white behind me.

674

:

That's my dad and there's a

candle lit in front of him.

675

:

So like and this is something that the

divine feminine my exploration of the

676

:

sacred feminine brought into my life

very organically like I didn't I didn't

677

:

know I And then went off and did my

research and understood the idea of the

678

:

ancestral grandmother and how that's

very present in certain cultures, even

679

:

more so than a goddess, you know, like

it's that continuation of lineage.

680

:

But I was going to ask you about

your current relationship with your

681

:

mom, because I think sometimes people

are surprised when I tell them how

682

:

close I feel to my father now in ways

that I don't even know would have

683

:

been possible had he stayed alive.

684

:

I think he would have been.

685

:

In, in earthly form here, and

I think he would have been very

686

:

confused by the work that I do.

687

:

I think our politics would have

been wildly different, and we

688

:

might have stopped speaking to each

other in the last few years, and

689

:

particularly with the last election.

690

:

But there's a difference in, in the

relationship now and there's been

691

:

tremendous grief that I had to move

through anger that I had to process.

692

:

And, and.

693

:

Yeah, and there's relationship.

694

:

There is real, to me, it's very real.

695

:

He shows up in my dreams on a

fairly regular basis, especially,

696

:

you know, if I'm in transition and,

and so, yeah, I don't, can you talk

697

:

about what that relationship is

like with your, with your mother?

698

:

Rebe Huntman: So I love that and I've

been admiring your altar behind you.

699

:

I and is that a sunflower

in the vase as well?

700

:

Yeah,

701

:

Liz Childs Kelly: it's actually,

I know, we have to talk about the

702

:

sunflowers, but one of my children made

Lego sunflowers for me for my birthday

703

:

this year, and that's, yes, I know.

704

:

Rebe Huntman: Oh, oh, so that is now on

my list of things I didn't know I needed,

705

:

but now must have, is a Lego sunflower.

706

:

You need

707

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Lego flowers,

check them out, they're, they're,

708

:

they're very cool projects,

709

:

Rebe Huntman: yeah.

710

:

Yeah, so I, I don't think it's a mistake

or an accident that the, these, this

711

:

ancestral worship, this keeping the dead

close, this sense of being part of a

712

:

lineage is very much happens in tandem

with, with devotion to the mother, right?

713

:

This idea, we live in such strange

fractured times right now where we,

714

:

we think that this is it, right?

715

:

This is, this is so.

716

:

whoever collects the most Legos

before we die wins, right?

717

:

These other, the Afro Cuban

spiritual practices of Cuba are

718

:

all about becoming an ancestor, the

importance of being an ancestor.

719

:

Your whole life is about earning

your place as an ancestor so that

720

:

you will do a good job of guiding

and protecting the next generation.

721

:

It's this, this, this continuation

of life, That never ends, right?

722

:

And there's this connectivity.

723

:

So plugging into that, and, and what

happened was, when I, when I left for Cuba

724

:

in 2013, on, on the, the pilgrimage that

the book talks about, I prayed for change.

725

:

I knew I needed change.

726

:

I knew that I was feeling very adrift.

727

:

Not, it wasn't just my grief.

728

:

My grief was calling

attention to something.

729

:

I felt adrift as a woman.

730

:

I had expected by the time I was 50 that

I would feel self possessed and I would

731

:

feel, you know, like I knew everything

and I would be a wise woman and, and I

732

:

was like, wow, I still feel like a 19 year

old girl who just lost her mother, right?

733

:

Like, where's the guide to

show me, show me the way.

734

:

So there was a real impetus to go there

and change and come back different.

735

:

And also a fear, like,

what if I come back?

736

:

So changed.

737

:

That the people who love me don't

recognize me and won't love me anymore.

738

:

And, and so when I went to Cuba and,

and, I talk about in the book the

739

:

experiences I had in, learning about

ancestor worship participating in, some

740

:

Santeria rituals and sacrifices and all

the things that were so Vastly different

741

:

from what I was familiar with at home.

742

:

I was nervous about coming back.

743

:

I had been in a relationship with a man

who's now my husband for only a year.

744

:

And I thought he's going to think

I'm crazy if I come back, with my

745

:

ancestral altar and my, all of this.

746

:

And I, I, on the plane home, I made

a promise to myself that I was going

747

:

to come home and Very up front.

748

:

These are things that are important to me.

749

:

They're not going anywhere This is

like the foundation of my life is

750

:

this new practice in this new way

of of of being in the world and part

751

:

Of that is talking with my mother.

752

:

So you asked, a very simple question

I gave you a very indirect answer,

753

:

but , I have I I have my ancestral altar.

754

:

I put out flowers I light candles I

have not only my mother, but all of

755

:

my ancestors that I have pictures for,

obviously, they're not all represented,

756

:

but everybody have a picture, for and,

, I drum I sometimes will bring dinner

757

:

up here and we'll sit and we'll talk.

758

:

But having that, having established

an ancestral altar and making that

759

:

a practice, then has paved the

way for me just talking to my mom

760

:

whenever, like that's the reminder

is the physical location, but I

761

:

could be at Kroger, grocery shopping

and just start talking to my mom.

762

:

And there would have been a point

in my life where I would have

763

:

thought, well, that's crazy.

764

:

Certainly don't want

anybody seeing you do that.

765

:

And now it's like, no,

it's crazy not to, right?

766

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah, so true.

767

:

My dad my dad worked for Delta Airlines

and he wasn't a pilot, but he was

768

:

he worked in more in the engineering

department, but so I consider him

769

:

my patron saint of air travel.

770

:

And so I always talk to him when I'm on

airplanes because he loved flying and he

771

:

loved, he worked in Delta in the early

sixties when it was, , a small airline

772

:

and he was one of the earlier employees.

773

:

So he, he was like the golden

age of, of travel, where they.

774

:

He could fly for free wherever

he, he wanted to go as a, as

775

:

a Delta employee or whatever.

776

:

So yes, I, I know exactly what you mean.

777

:

I tend to talk to him a

lot when I, when I fly.

778

:

I.

779

:

There's two questions.

780

:

I wanna make sure I have time

'cause I we're gonna run outta time.

781

:

Oh my gosh.

782

:

I feel like I could talk to

you for a really long time.

783

:

So one is like, I, you've mentioned the

sunflowers and I wanna talk about that

784

:

because that is the cover of your book.

785

:

Beautiful Picture of Sunflowers,

which, if you're a viewer, I'm

786

:

gonna hold it up so you can see it.

787

:

And you are adorned with sunflowers,

. And tell us about the connection

788

:

with sunflowers and the and our

Lady of Charity in hun and, and

789

:

this whole journey of yours.

790

:

Yeah.

791

:

Rebe Huntman: So the sunflower is the

most ubiquitous symbol for both of them.

792

:

It's one of the bridges that, is

kind of an indication of the, of the

793

:

really profound secretization of the

two figures that anybody going to

794

:

visit Our Lady of Charity's sanctuary

will bring a bouquet of sunflowers.

795

:

And anybody who pays tribute to Choshun,

will, through offerings of sunflowers.

796

:

So it's just this really beautiful

symbol that connects them both.

797

:

And of course we could get into

this, the whole, sunflower is,

798

:

ability to, follow the sun and, it's

just, it's such a beautiful flower

799

:

and it's so bright and it's, and,

and, and beautiful, and I'm really.

800

:

I feel really blessed because the

sunflower on the cover I'll hold up was

801

:

painted by a Cuban artist, friend of

mine and it's from his painting this

802

:

is a detail from his painting called

Annunciation, the Great Offering.

803

:

And I just love this gesture of offering.

804

:

I love the, all the, all the many ways

that the mother shows up, with open arms.

805

:

Right.

806

:

And then, our response, back to hers,

to give our own offering this, this

807

:

gentle nod of, of, of the sunflower.

808

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Yes, I love it.

809

:

The word devotion comes to mind too

and, and reciprocity of sorts, , not

810

:

that that's like a quid pro quo thing,

but in that, in that, that giving

811

:

of devotion and care we receive and.

812

:

Yeah.

813

:

Yeah.

814

:

Yeah.

815

:

Rebe Huntman: I don't know if we have time

for the, there's a story, I'll try and

816

:

tell it really quickly in the book that I

talk about there was a slave, an enslaved

817

:

girl named Apollonia and she's part of the

foundational story of Our Lady of Charity.

818

:

Yes.

819

:

We have

820

:

Liz Childs Kelly: time.

821

:

Tell.

822

:

Please tell.

823

:

Yes.

824

:

Rebe Huntman: Yeah, this

is my favorite story.

825

:

So it's told in very, in, in, there

are different versions of the story,

826

:

but the one that I'm going to tell,

because it's the one I love the most,

827

:

and it was told to me by the priest who

maintains her, her sanctuary, he's in

828

:

charge of her at her sanctuary in El

Cobre, that in the 17th century, there

829

:

was this enslaved girl named Apollonia.

830

:

And she had lost her mother.

831

:

Her mother was deceased and she was

bereft and she climbed this hill

832

:

looking for her mother where the mother

had worked in the mines of El Cobre.

833

:

And so she climbs the hill just

thinking as we all do, in grief,

834

:

you're not thinking clearly.

835

:

Well, maybe my mom will be

there at the top, right?

836

:

That kind of magical thinking and so

she climbs and of course she gets to

837

:

the top and her mother isn't there

and she's Bereft and she falls to the

838

:

ground and she beats her her fists on

the ground and she She shouts, with so

839

:

much grief and it's then that our lady of

charity appears to this young This young

840

:

girl and says I am your mother Right?

841

:

And so Apollonia climbs down the hill

where she climbed up, filled with grief,

842

:

she climbs back down just filled with joy,

brimming with joy, that she's found, she's

843

:

lost her biological mother, but found

her spiritual mother, her spiritual root.

844

:

And she comes back to tell the

whole town of El Cobre, right?

845

:

Our mother, Our Lady of Charity

is here and she's here to guide us

846

:

and protect us and watch over us.

847

:

Liz Childs Kelly: So beautiful.

848

:

I was just thinking of like, and

again, as a, as somebody who has sought

849

:

out the mother across traditions,

I love to see the, the threads of

850

:

similarities, which I never try to.

851

:

I wouldn't try to put a unifying

story on that because they're not my

852

:

cultures, but I love to see that and

the similarities to the story of, of

853

:

Guadalupe and and then other cultures too.

854

:

There's so many stories of, of a

mysterious statue that's brought out

855

:

of the woods at a time when people are

really hurting and they need her, you

856

:

know, that you've seen that in Europe too.

857

:

And I, I just, something that

really struck me as you were

858

:

speaking is grief as a path.

859

:

You know, like, that, and I feel like I'm

getting emotional now, but like, grief as

860

:

a As a doorway to, to the divine mother.

861

:

Mm-hmm . And that, you know, like

really opening to the grief, which as

862

:

you pointed out culturally, we like to

try and circumvent and get around and

863

:

not face, but like in actually turning

towards it and opening to the grief.

864

:

And I love that you use the word bereft.

865

:

It's not very commonly used in

our culture, but it, it captures

866

:

to me it's so potent, that word,

but in letting that kind of.

867

:

Really get inside or let it out, that,

that, that's the moment when we get

868

:

access to her and how heartbreakingly

beautiful that is, you know?

869

:

Rebe Huntman: Mm.

870

:

Yeah.

871

:

Thank you.

872

:

And, and I think, you know, you

talked about, finding the statue

873

:

in the woods at precisely the moment

when we're in such great need.

874

:

I feel like I, I, I know that the people

I talk to, so many people are feeling

875

:

that great need now and and, and that.

876

:

And, and hopefully amongst that need,

877

:

we will find ourselves reaching

for this lost mother, right?

878

:

Who's been lost, to us that

is so, so vastly needed.

879

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah.

880

:

Yeah.

881

:

And I.

882

:

This feels like kind of a really

potent place to sort of move towards an

883

:

ending of this particular conversation.

884

:

But yeah, that feels so powerful, what you

just said, especially at a moment when I

885

:

don't know about you, but I think me and

pretty much everybody I talk to in the U.

886

:

S.

887

:

is kind of reeling with where

we're at, like decisions that are

888

:

being made on a day to day basis.

889

:

There's all kinds of feelings.

890

:

There's grief, there's anger,

there's all of it, you know but

891

:

just feeling like there's a really

powerful message to not, to not shut

892

:

those feelings out, to actually turn

towards them and to allow them to

893

:

have their way with us, if you will.

894

:

And in, in that, that actually is the

path to the, to the help that we need

895

:

and to the, to the divine support

that we are all longing for, I think.

896

:

Rebe Huntman: Well, and,

and, and I love that.

897

:

I love that on a spiritual sense

and also just on a practical sense.

898

:

Patriarchy is not working.

899

:

You know, we're seeing, we're

seeing, we're seeing the results.

900

:

And I think we're reeling.

901

:

Many, many of us are reeling and,

and surprised and maybe and kind

902

:

of bringing our, our hands, but

maybe Maybe it's a reset, right?

903

:

Maybe it's a time to think, wow,

this, this thing isn't working.

904

:

So then what, what does work?

905

:

Maybe we start getting some

more interesting questions.

906

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Yeah.

907

:

And the other thing I want to say,

I was going to ask this question,

908

:

but I think this feels like, this

feels like a good place to stop.

909

:

And one of the things that I've been

working with, and so, you know, you

910

:

can reflect if you want, but is the

idea of what the divine feminine, the

911

:

sacred feminine teaches us about power

that we don't see in patriarchal.

912

:

Imaginings of power, which, you know,

those are control, hierarchy, war, the

913

:

ability to create death on a wide scale,

and hoarding of resources, like that's,

914

:

to me, those are sort of the hallmarks

of power as we understand them in systems

915

:

of domination, but One of the ones that

I have been aware of in my own journey

916

:

and I feel like we've been speaking to

and you're speaking to is that there

917

:

is actually, actually tremendous power

in our emotions and allowing them to

918

:

be and not shutting them down and not

acting like they're irrational or they're

919

:

not useful, but they actually tell us

when boundaries have been crossed, when

920

:

there is something that needs to be

processed in order to move forward, and

921

:

it's actually incredibly powerful to

let them in and to let them guide us.

922

:

Rebe Huntman: Mm.

923

:

I love that.

924

:

And so just to put a little

to dot the I or whatever.

925

:

Oh, soon is such a beautiful role model

for that because as I said earlier,

926

:

she she's a shape shifter and she is as

ferocious as the most ferocious river or

927

:

as smooth as the, it's glassy waters.

928

:

She's, she's mercurial, but not just

To be, whimsical, but, , because she

929

:

lets you know, when a, when a boundary

has been crossed, she can turn herself

930

:

into a vulture, and appear that way.

931

:

So yeah, I think she's a really beautiful

role model in terms of embracing all of

932

:

the feelings and all the emotions and

all of the faces of what it means to be.

933

:

To be human.

934

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Yes.

935

:

And I, and I, I just think that you did a

really beautiful job too in demonstrating

936

:

what it looks like to do one's homework,

if you will, on, on these deities, like

937

:

however you do that, whether through

ritual or learning, , because there,

938

:

there's another thing that I think people

in the U S don't always understand that

939

:

these are really powerful entities with

really powerful energies behind them.

940

:

And so knowing them and being in

relationship with them, which is how

941

:

you know them is so, is so incredibly.

942

:

So incredibly important so that

you know how to work with them with

943

:

reverence and devotion and respect.

944

:

Yeah.

945

:

Yes.

946

:

Amen.

947

:

I'm so happy to know you, Rebe.

948

:

Thank you so much for joining me.

949

:

Rebe Huntman: This has been a

delight, such a delight to be on

950

:

with you and to be able to speak

with your, with your listeners.

951

:

Such a pleasure, and I'm

so grateful for this time.

952

:

Thank you.

953

:

Liz Childs Kelly: Yes, and, and listeners,

check out Rebe's book, My Mother in

954

:

Havana, a memoir of magic and miracle.

955

:

I will have a link to this

in the show notes for sure.

956

:

And as Always, thank you so much for

being here and dialing in and giving

957

:

me an excuse to get cool people on my

show like Rebe, because I don't know if

958

:

they'd show up if you weren't listening.

959

:

And if you like the show, you

can, you can do a few things.

960

:

You can subscribe.

961

:

You can tell somebody about it.

962

:

You can leave it a favorable review.

963

:

You can do all those things

if you feel so inclined.

964

:

And until next time, take

such good care of yourself.

965

:

Maybe give yourself space for the big

emotions that need to move and know that

966

:

it's okay and I'll be with you again soon.

967

:

Home to Her is hosted by me, Liz Kelley.

968

:

You can visit me online at hometoher.

969

:

com, where you can find show

notes and other episodes.

970

:

You can read articles about the

Sacred Feminine, and you'll also

971

:

find a link to join the Home to

Her Facebook group for lots more

972

:

discussion and exploration of Her.

973

:

You can also follow me on Instagram,

at home to her, to keep up to

974

:

date with the latest episodes.

975

:

Thanks so much for joining us

and we'll see you back here soon.

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About the Podcast

Home to Her
Exploring the roots of female power and wisdom
The Home to Her podcast is dedicated to elevating ancient feminine wisdom via the exploration of herstory, mythology, philosophy and more. Join host Liz Childs Kelly for intimate conversations with acclaimed authors, artists, teachers, poets and mystics, each of whom will help us uncover our unheard stories and reclaim the roots of the ancient female power in our own lives.

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Liz Kelly